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Offline Grumpy Old Fart

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Mana sources
« on: May 23, 2023, 09:02:35 PM »
Ever since I worked on the HARP rewrite a decade or so ago, I have thought mana sources and the skill of using them needed a good going over.

I think that however many sources of mana there are, each of them should have a separate and distinct skill of tapping that power (thus acquiring "power points"  or whatever label you choose), and that none of those skills should be a "magical skill." For example, power from the Gods should be sourced by the skill of Appeasement, an Influence/Social skill. Power drawn from the natural flow of the planet or plane you're on should be sourced by Thaumatology, an Academic/Scientific skill.

Anyone have any thoughts or comments on the subject?
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... - Traditional verbal spell component
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... - Traditional somatic spell component
Eye of newt and toe of frog, wool of bat and tongue of dog... Traditional potion formula

Offline Rasyr

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Re: Mana sources
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2023, 08:26:33 AM »
Very interesting idea.

I have a couple of articles that I wrote a long, long time ago that might give you some ideas as well. I have them posted on my personal site.

The Ecology of Magic

and

Magical Addiction

Offline Dimirag

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Re: Mana sources
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2023, 11:16:55 AM »
I have also thought about different skills, talents, or rules for different mana sources with each source having its pros and cons, for ex

Inner Mana: the energy inside the character, it recovers by resting, the skill limit how much mana is available
Outer Mana: the energy on the nature, its almost limitless, but takes a lot of time to be gatherer, ritual skills go here.
Divine Mana: Its energy given by the Gods, the skill communion goes here
I'm not a native English speaker, sorry for any error.

Offline Grumpy Old Fart

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Re: Mana sources
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2023, 11:55:05 AM »
I started using HARP magic sources, but you can name it however you like:

Ambient mana is derived from the energy budget of the world you're on. The skill of tapping that power is Thaumatology, an Academic/Scientific skill.

Granted mana is derived from being "gifted" power by a God or other powerful entity. The skill of tapping that power is Appeasement, an Influence/Social skill.

Personal mana is derived from that part of Ambient mana that flows through your own body and mind. The skill of tapping it is Self Mastery, a Concentration skill.

Fixed mana is derived from the patterns of Ambient mana trapped in matter, such as when a rock solidifies or when a plant or animal dies. The skill of tapping it is Ad Hoc Sculpture, an Artistic skill.

So if you're an "archmage," you have to learn a Concentration skill, a Scientific skill and an Influence skill, and your ability to cast spells will be limited by which of those you are least proficient in. This does away with the need for "Spell Point Acquisition" or some such to be more expensive for an archmage than anybody else. It's not any more expensive, it's just that the archmage has to learn it 3 times, 3 different ways.

I also wanted to make things so that each of the different methods of drawing power has different casting speeds, different risks, and different consequences of failure. Thinking you are the Ultimate Avatar of God is a risk you run when divine magic goes astray, but not so much with other forms of magic.
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... - Traditional verbal spell component
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... - Traditional somatic spell component
Eye of newt and toe of frog, wool of bat and tongue of dog... Traditional potion formula

Offline Grumpy Old Fart

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Re: Mana sources
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2023, 12:01:34 PM »
Here's where I currently am regarding differences resulting from different methods of tapping power:

Filtered (Ambient) mana:
Available power: Unlimited
Speed: Slow, as power has to "condense" around standing wave.
Risk: Fumble chance 1% per 10% of total PPs used.
Consequences of failure: 50% chance of being "lost in the planes" until you RR vs. a mental stat, 50% roll on the insanity fumble table.
Cut-off conditions: Low/no magic areas.

Rendered (Granted) mana:
Available power: Limited by the power of the granting entity.
Speed: Medium, power is on tap, but from an external source.
Risk: Fumble chance 1% per 10% of total PPs used until "out," quickly increasing once PPs used exceed skill total.
Consequences of failure: 50% chance of excommunication until you atone, 50% roll on the insanity fumble table.
Cut-off conditions: Exco9mmunication, areas where granting entity holds no sway.

Personal mana:
Available power: Limited by personal skill.
Speed: Extremely quick, as power is instantly available in quantity.
Risk: Fumble chance 1% per 10% of total PPs used until "out." Cannot cast once out.
Consequences of failure: Roll on the insanity fumble table.
Cut-off conditions: Caster can use up all available power.

Anchored (Fixed) mana:
Available power: Limited by availability of components.
Speed: Slow, caster must build the pattern that creates the standing wave.
Risk: Fumble chance 1% per 10% of total skill used.
Consequences of failure: 50% chance of Elemental Ball, size and AoE vary with risk %, 50% roll on the insanity fumble table.
Cut-off conditions: Running out of components.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2023, 03:23:11 PM by Grumpy Old Fart »
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... - Traditional verbal spell component
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... - Traditional somatic spell component
Eye of newt and toe of frog, wool of bat and tongue of dog... Traditional potion formula

Offline Grumpy Old Fart

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Re: Mana sources
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2023, 12:19:48 PM »
Something else along the same lines. I realize this isn't 100% consistent with the above, but it's still a work in progress.

Filtered mana casters:
Casting speed is limited by the environment. On leylines or outflow points (Earthnodes) where available mana is higher, casting speed will likewise be higher. Thus an filtered mana caster will always be looking for the “high spot” in available power to draw from. Daily maximum is effectively unlimited, but risk of failure increases as more power is used between rest breaks. Most places in most environments will yield 2-3 PPs/round, but a cluster of outflow points whose radii of effect overlap could yield 10-20 PPs/round or higher. This isn’t too risky soon after a rest, but can easily be lethal to the caster if he or she is tired.

Rendered mana casters:
Every single act, including casting, is a representation of your God. Therefore every single casting requires an Appeasement roll in order to acquire the necessary PPs. Extraordinarily good or bad Appeasement rolls will shorten or lengthen casting time, and could even affect subsequent actions/spells. Note that sacrifices and other actions can add bonuses or penalties to Appeasement. Also note that while available power is only limited by the power of your God, asking for more than the minimum necessary is pushing your luck, and can also affect Appeasement rolls. Risk is also tied to Appeasement rolls. How much Appeasement results are dependent on die rolls vary with whether your God is a proponent of order or chaos.

Personal mana casters:
Casting is fast, with the default being instantaneous. Available power is determined by Self Mastery skill, and in theory you could use all of the day’s power on a single instantaneous spell. But on the other hand, while power is instantly available, the more power you use at a time, the higher your risk of failure and the more likely the consequences are to be bad. Thus Personal mana casters will tend to stick to low cost spells when possible, and when high cost spells are needed, choose to take as long as conditions permit to cast the spell. The above example of using all of the day’s power instantaneously is very much a desperation move, and could easily render the caster permanently insane.

Anchored mana casters:
Casting speed is one round per component used. Thus a Anchored caster will always be looking for the most powerful possible components, so that the most powerful spells can be cast in a minimum amount of time. PPs beyond what is needed for the casting will be expressed as Fortean effects. Expect Anchored casters to be very grudging about using components that are even a single point more powerful than the minimum needed. As with Filtered mana users, Anchored mana users’ risk increases with the amount of power used since the last rest period.

Hybrids of 2:
Filtered/Anchored:
Speed is whichever is faster. Risk is amount of power used between rest breaks.

Filtered/Rendered:
Speed and risk are dictated by the granting entity.

Filtered/Personal:
Speed is limited by environment. Risk is power used per amount of casting time

Anchored/Personal:
Speed is one round per component. Risk is power used per amount of casting time.

Anchored/Rendered:
Speed and risk are dictated by the granting entity.

Rendered/Personal:
Speed and risk are dictated by the granting entity.

Hybrids of 3:
Filtered/Anchored/Personal:
Speed defaults to instantaneous. Risk is power used per amount of casting time.

All other hybrids of 3:
Speed and risk are dictated by the granting entity.
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... - Traditional verbal spell component
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... - Traditional somatic spell component
Eye of newt and toe of frog, wool of bat and tongue of dog... Traditional potion formula

Offline Grumpy Old Fart

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Re: Mana sources
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2023, 02:12:09 PM »
The way I see it, the trick to creating a new magic system is:

1. Making all of the sources of magic distinct from one another.

And yet,

2. Making them closely balanced enough that you don't get everybody always wanting to use the same source all the time.

And of course if you want your system to be widely accepted,

3. Making your system very different from anything that has gone before, and yet still be relatively simple to learn and use.
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... - Traditional verbal spell component
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... - Traditional somatic spell component
Eye of newt and toe of frog, wool of bat and tongue of dog... Traditional potion formula