Other Potential New Classes

[imported_Rasyr]

I recently updated the Monk and also started 2 new threads to discuss the 2 new classes that I am planning on including in the next Libram Novus.

In addition to these 3 Classes, there are a couple of others that I am also considering/contemplating for future products.

Beastmaster -- this is not a spell using Class, but he makes use of the "Influence Animals" and "Animal Tongue" talents from LN#3

Champion -- Semi Adept of the School of Divine Magic -- the problem here is whether to make him generic or to create specialized versions for different deities

Shadow Scout -- Semi-Adept of the School of Mysticism. The Shadow Scout focuses more on subterfuge and information gathering than the Monk.

[Fidoric]

Considering the champion, I wonder if it could be possible to give him a generic set of spells along with some deitiy specific spells.
For example, being champions, they should all benefit from offensive (magical attack + damage bonus) and defensive (DEF + AR) boost as well as save bonuses and certainly  some healing abilities.  This common core could then be complemented by specific spells tied to each specific deity ?
That would require that each deity give specific spells but could make for interesting variation with the same class, something similar to what you have done with the mage profession.

[imported_Rasyr]

That was part of what I had been thinking about.. the problem is that I would then have to devise spells for each specific Sphere of Influence for a given deity..

Here is a quick list of Spheres....

Sphere of Influence
Animals
Arts/Crafts
Darkness
Death
Destruction
Evil Cults
Fire
Healing
Justice
Knowledge
Light
Love/Fertility
Magic
Nature
Night
Plants
Revenge
Sea/Oceans/Rivers/Water
Sky/Weather
Spirit
Strength
Subtlety/Stealth
Sun
Travel
Undead
War
Winter
Wisdom

In actuality, this would likely be a good things to do, for Clerics as well as Champions....

I may have to change Champion to a Paladin (a generic do-gooder type similar to the current Cleric) who can then later be specialized according to the given deity/Sphere.

[Fidoric]

Making a standard paladin is a quick solution and will produce something that most pepole are familiar with. I for one will be more than happy with it. However, I think that the standard paladin in shiny plates is impossible to do at first level. If you include combat training 1 and semi-caster, you can only add medium armors. It will require each character to invest some efforts to be comfortable with a plate armor.

I think that to be complete and able to make priests more credible, the creation of spheres cannot be avoided, but that could either wait for another opus of LN or some basic spheres could be added to the core rules (animals, death,... the choice will be hard to make). I think that a complete LN on divine magic could be great.

[imported_Rasyr]

Not  adding anything else to the core rules if at all possible. Open Beta ends THIS month...

The Spheres most likely will have to wait until their own stand-alone project (i.e. expands the Cleric and Champion both).

Anyways, the Champion/Paladin isn't for the next LN anyways, so there is time to give it some more think...

[imported_Rasyr]

Just had a thought regarding Paladins.....

What if they had a Talent that was similar to that of the Weapon Bond talent that we discussed for Warrior Mages.

Perhaps something along the following lines....

Faith's Armor - The Paladin's has been consecrated in and infused with the power of his deity in a specific manner that allows the Paladin to overcome the Impedance caused by most armors. The character may subtract up to 1 point from the total Impedance of the armor he wears for every 3 points that he has in his Wisdom Stat.

This would allow Paladins to use most any armor they wanted, but they would most likely end up having to pay for the Armor talents themselves...

[imported_Rasyr]

More Paladin Thoughts...

First off, a Class is between 24 and 26 points. The Talent, Impedance Reduction (LN#3) costs 10 Points, and Faith's Armor, described above, is more powerful than that (now that I compare).

Add to this that Combat Training I and Semi Adept require 20 of those potential 26 points. and that does not even include any armor training talents.

So, perhaps Faith's Armor (or Blessed Armor) is a spell that is cast on the armor (cannot be worn while the spell is being cast) and has variable duration (until the caster next sleeps or is knocked unconscious or 24 hours, whichever comes first). As a spell, it then allows for the character to wear whatever armor he likes, up to and perhaps even including Plate armor.

But it also requires the Paladin to follow a bit of morning ritual as well (i.e. a drawback to go with its benefit), casting the spell on his armor...  In fact, perhaps one of the casting options can make it more powerful (-1 Imp per 2 points in wisdom stat).... And being a Paladin spell, a Cleric could always learn it as well (and thus you get those armor wearing, spell casting priests and warriors.

And then we can give the Paladin training to wear heavy armor, but also impose another restriction of some sort on him, such as requiring that he follows a specific code of conduct, that is spelled out in the Class description (failure to do so resulting in the loss of spell casting abilities until it is atoned for (and only a higher ranking priest of his order is allowed to set what is to be done to atone for the transgression)

[Fidoric]

I understand the rationales behind this but somehow, having to cast a spell each day to wear an armor doesn't feel very "divine-like" IMO.

Thinking about it, one of the difference between Novus and other games is that wearing an armor doesn't make it any more difficult to cast a spell. It is only costlier. Casting a spell on full plate costs 9 more SP than without armor.
Being a semi-caster, a paladin stats with 5 SP + any rank in spellcasting. A first level paladin is likely to have around 2 or 3 ranks in spellcasting and thus around 8 SP at beginning. He would be unable to cast in full plate.  To be able to do so, he would have to boost his spellcasting and maybe drop his helmet. (5 ranks in spellcasting gives him 10 SP and without helmet, his impedance drops to 7, enabling him to cast a spell up to 3 SP). And that is for a beginner.

So I was wondering if it is at all necessary to give him any edge for armored casting. If he choose to wear full plate at first level, he is almost unable (by choice) to cast spells with his armor on. But OTOH, I am not sure that many first level characters wear full plates to begin (it is very expensive, about 160 sp). With an impedance reduction or extra spell points talent and a couple more ranks in spellcasting, he will soon be able to cast even with the heaviest armor. Does he need any more help ? In this case, the Bless Armor spell could become handy.

An additional option could be to put the magic stat bonus back in the SP total. This 2-3 additional spell points could make the difference between unable to cast a spell due to impedance and able to cast 1 spell.

[imported_Rasyr]

Hmm... The Impedance Reduction Talent costs 10 CP and is not Trainable, meaning that it is required to acquired during character generation.

The base abilities for a Paladin will likely be:
1) Semi Adept (10 CP)
2) Combat Training I (10 CP)
3) Medium Armor (6 CP)

for a total of 26 CP....

I have several options that I could follow here...

1) Include a new Talent that reduces the cost of Impedance Reduction and makes it trainable for the Paladin (allowing him to acquire it at any time), but I would also have to include a requirement that has a penalty if not performed (i.e. must pray for 10 minutes every morning, or receive a -4 to all spell casting attempts (or perhaps double impedance before the reduction) for the day -- i.e. his deity show displeasure for failure to perform properly). The net cost of this talent/penalty would have to be zero...

2) The same as above, but don't reduce the cost.....

3) Include ALL of the talents required to make a Paladin (including Heavy Armor and Impedance Reduction), but have these costs spread over several levels, and the Paladin cannot learn or cast spells until they are fully paid for.

The base abilities for a Paladin would be:
1) Semi Adept (10 CP)
2) Combat Training I (10 CP)
3) Heavy Armor (9 CP)
4) Impedance Reduction (10 CP)
Total Cost: 39 CP; 13 CP above average...

So.....

1) Paladin starts with only 17 CP to spend on skills/talents/etc. instead of 30 CP

OR

2) Paladin starts with 30 CP as normal, but only gains 10 CP at 2nd Level, only gains 10 CP at 3rd level, and only gains 12 CP at 4th level, and once he reaches 4th level, the character is then allowed to start buying and casting spells.... (Epiphany!! In early versions of D&D, the Paladin wasn't able to use spells until around 4th level anyways -- hehe....)

Note: I prefer option #1 here...

Note that while the Paladin would be able to use Plate, he wouldn't actually be given any as part of his starting equipment (the most given is Reinforced Leather), but there is nothing to say that he cannot trade up to Chain, or Scale (paying the difference -- which has already be set as a precedent) before play begins.

As I just realized that the way I designed the class creation rules, that I could actually build stronger classes, and then offset them accordingly by removing CP from development


As for giving more spell points --- sorry, but I don't think so. If I gave them to one class, I would have to give them to all, and that would make major adepts a little too powerful, I think (besides, I don't want to make any more changes to the core rules).

[Fidoric]

As for adding magic stat bonus to SP, I was thinking of doing it for every profession, not only paladin. On average, it would add 2 or 3 SP to magic users when a major adept would likely have around 20. But I understand your wish not to alter the core rules at this point.

I don't feel like a new talent designed specifically to alter impedance reduction would be great. On the other hand, you could make impedance reduction trainable for everyone.

I do like your proposition to create classes with more abilities with the additional cost being paid from 1st level character points. It is not fully consistent with the rules on class creation in LN3 but it allows for specific high-training classes with higher specialisation but narrower scope in skills. It is a great idea. I think your proposition of a fully talented palading starting with only 17 CP is the best.

[imported_Rasyr]

I do like your proposition to create classes with more abilities with the additional cost being paid from 1st level character points. It is not fully consistent with the rules on class creation in LN3 but it allows for specific high-training classes with higher specialisation but narrower scope in skills. It is a great idea. I think your proposition of a fully talented palading starting with only 17 CP is the best.

Actually, it would be consistent with the rules for Class Creation from Libram Novus #3. It would simply be an extension of those rules if the total cost of capabilities extend beyond 26 points (the maximum currently allowed under the rules).

For such an extension, however, I would put limitations on it, such as:

• No Talents/Capabilities that cost greater than 10 points
• No more than a single "filler Talent" such as Weapon Kata or Favored Skill
• Sum of the costs of all Special Abilities cannot exceed 40 points in total
• When a Class has a cost that exceeds 26 points, the number of CP subtracted  from first level CP is the "total cost minus 25". So, for example, if a Class has a total ability cost of 30 points, then a first level character of that Class will get 25 CP instead of the normal 30.

Side Note: Impedance Reduction is not Trainable because if it were, then every spell user would end up getting it eventually. By limiting to chargen only, that means that the player must make some choices regarding how he wants his character to develop, and with it taking 1/3 of his overall CP, that would mean less skills and less spells starting off (i.e. making the character a bit weaker).
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[Fidoric]

I agree with the necessity to put some limitations.
Some talents could be completely left out of those extensions. With a 10 points limitation, you can create a fighter /semi-caster for 36 points.
Maybe some talents could been seen as "exclusive" and not to be combined (combat training 2 and major adept come to mind).

[imported_Rasyr]

Having some being marked as  Exclusive sounds like a good suggestion as well...

Off the top of my head, I would say that Combat Training II, Major Adept, Minor Adept, and Semi Adept could/should all be marked as exclusive, then we could have "No more than a single Exclusive Talent per Class" as another item in the criteria list. and the "not above 10 points would then apply to the non-exclusive talents.

[Fidoric]

I think that is better balanced that way.