New Spell Casting Option

[imported_Rasyr]

So, I was talking with phgaw last night about his comment regarding Novus from this thread --> http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?628759-Good-quot-Medium-quot-RPG-Systems

And he told me how he liked Shadowrun's spell casting rules, where first you made a skill roll to cast the spell, and then you had to make a save versus drain which could cause damage. So, I came up with a quick option for him based on his description of that.

• Successful Casting Roll -- Save vs Drain (TN == 14 + # of Spell Points normally required)
  
  • Save succeeds -- No Damage
  • Save Fails -- Take 1 hit of damage per point that the Save is missed by
  • Save Fails by 10 or more -- In addition to damage, caster is Dazed (-4 to all actions) for 1 round
  • Save Fails by 20 or more -- In addition to damage, caster is Stunned (no actions allowed) for 1 round

[/li]
[li]Failed Casting Roll -- must make the Save as above, except that the TN of the Save is also increased by the amount that the casting roll was failed by.
[/li]
[/list]

Still to be done -- figuring out how Essential Salts work into the mix. I am thinking that they would work in a manner similar to how they currently work (i.e. each dram reduces spell point cost by 1, so each dram used in casting a spell also reduces the TN of the Save vs Drain by 1, and always with the limit that no matter how much Essential Salts are used, it cannot reduce that SP value below 1 (i.e. a Save vs Drain cannot be made less than 15).

There may be one or two other things that I would need to consider in this as well (magic items, etc..) But this is a good starting point, I think...

Thoughts? Comments?
[/list]

[Fidoric]

I think it is a good option.
Directly reducing hit points seems a little bit harsh to me, but not too much. Besides, I can see that this system can be use with no other modification to the rules. I would rather have a fatigue or endurance stat to reduce, reflecting that spell casting is taxing but not necessarily a life-threatening process (except maybe when you fail your casting or earn snags while casting).
Another way to go is something I have experiment in the past with both RMSS and HARP. Each spell casting reduce your magic stat by the spell cost, more if you roll badly (snags ?), less with great rolls (use boons to decrease the cost ?). For example you could make a drain roll TN 14+SP, decreasing / increasing the magic stat cost by one for each three points above / below the Drain TN. that way you create a virtuous (?) circle: the more magic you cast, the less magic power you have, the less you become able to resist the drain (spellcasting skill use your magic stat bonus) and the more power you are susceptible to lose...

By the way, not directly on topic, but I feel that Novus is lacking a simple way to rate exhaustion. I may come up with a light system to do so one day. Definitively not something to track round by round, but a quick rating with maybe three levels (winded, exhausted, spent...) to reflect the negative impact of exhaustion on any activity. That would allow to put limits on how long you can run or fight before being exhausted or things like that.

[imported_Rasyr]

Don't forget, if you make the Save vs Drain, you lose nothing, and could thus continue casting all day long...

Exhaustion - do it as Saving Throws vs. Con. Start at TN 15, and increase TN by 1 for every full minute/5 minutes or 10 minutes of activity (increments used should depend upon the level of activity during the interval. Remember, 1 minute is equal to 12 rounds of activity.

For example, a slow jog/run pace would be every 10 minutes, a regular run would be every 5 minutes, moving faster than a run, every 1 minute (melee combat and spellcasting would also fall into the every 1 minute category -- this would be in addition to the Save vs. Drain...)

You fail 1, then you are -2 to all actions (including future saves vs. exhaustion) until you rest for 5 minutes + 1 minute for each point that you failed the save by, fail a second time, get -4 to all actions until you rest 30 minutes + 2 minutes for each point you failed the save by, fail a third time, and you must stop and rest for minimum of 30 minutes, and THEN you are at -4 until you rest for another 30 minutes + 5 minutes for every point you failed by...

[whystle]

ok, this mechanic implements an idea that spellcasting can be dangerous regardless of whether you succeed or fail at casting a spell. Looks good, but a couple of questions and observations.

Is the drain save a will save or con save?

With the existing snag rules, a horribly failed cast (fail by 10 or more) will give the caster snag points; a follow on save vs drain failure will additionally penalize the caster. Something to keep in mind.

This adds another roll. Maybe it's not an issue for most, but there's already many places where multiple rolls are needed in spellcasting (target saves etc). I like the Versus mechanic where one roll is used. I'd suggest using the same dice roll used to cast (vs CTN) as the number used for the drain save.

As implemented the penalty is damage or a negative modifier though a condition like stunned or dazed. However, this also offers a good way of introducing some variety into magic. For example, many games offer an idea - magic is dangerous and can corrupt. So instead of damage or stuns etc..the penalty effect could be some form of corruption such as a disease, mutation, etc..either a temporary condition if a moderate failure (miss by 10) or a longer duration (miss by 20). Or a drain failure table could be created for each type of caster (warlock, wizard, etc) with penalties that are appropriate or evocative of their nature.

[imported_Rasyr]

Is the drain save a will save or con save?

Actually, I think it would be made using the caster's Magic Stat... Since, afterall, this is supposedly damage is supposedly caused by the stress of handling magical energy..

With the existing snag rules, a horribly failed cast (fail by 10 or more) will give the caster snag points; a follow on save vs drain failure will additionally penalize the caster. Something to keep in mind.

Can you remind me where it says Saves are subject to Snags/Boons? I cannot seem to remember or find it in the book...

And note: that the failures of the save are intended to hurt and be cumulative. The idea is that eventually the caster will need to stop casting and recover....

This adds another roll. Maybe it's not an issue for most, but there's already many places where multiple rolls are needed in spellcasting (target saves etc). I like the Versus mechanic where one roll is used. I'd suggest using the same dice roll used to cast (vs CTN) as the number used for the drain save.

Interesting idea -- let's take a look to see what sort of results this might come up with....

We will use Cedric's stats (from the pre-gens in the Downloads area)

His total bonus for Spellcasting is 8. His Save Bonus for Wisdom is 8.

Divine Bolt -- his base CTN is 21 (SP2), so his Save vs. Drain would be 16. This means that if he successfully cast the spell (rolled 13 or higher), he would ALWAYS make the Save, essentially only taking damage if he failed in the casting, and even then, he would have to fail the Casting roll by at least 3 (i.e. roll 10 or less) before it would deal him damage. And since 10 or less is lower than the average die roll, chances are low that he would fail and suffer Drain.

The same sort of situation would apply to every spell that he cast. This could work as an option, but it would be a very powerful option since a successful is likely to always (I think) mean that the Save vs Drain is successful...

Now, if we were to use the same roll, I would say that the Save vs Drain would have to have a TN of (CTN + SP), so that for our Divine Bolt, the CTN is 21, and the TN for the Save vs Drain would be 23. Thus, if Cedric rolls a 13 (total of 21) he would take 2 hits of damage. If he rolled a 15 (total of 23, then he would take no damage).

And if he scaled up the spell (one casting option has a CTN mod of +4 and an SP mod of +2, that would make the CTN be 25, and Drain TN be 29 total... In the long run, this means that a caster would be MORE likely to take Drain when using Casting Options to scale up the power of a spell... but that is something I can easily live with....

As implemented the penalty is damage or a negative modifier though a condition like stunned or dazed.

Actually, it implements hits, AND either Dazed or Stunned, if enough hits are dealt...

However, this also offers a good way of introducing some variety into magic. For example, many games offer an idea - magic is dangerous and can corrupt. So instead of damage or stuns etc..the penalty effect could be some form of corruption such as a disease, mutation, etc..either a temporary condition if a moderate failure (miss by 10) or a longer duration (miss by 20). Or a drain failure table could be created for each type of caster (warlock, wizard, etc) with penalties that are appropriate or evocative of their nature.

Hmm... with Snag Points, then instead of Dazed or Stun, have Corruption tables that could be rolled upon randomly -- or wait.....

1 Snag Point -- have Drain Snag Table -- 1 Snag Point can get either Dazed or random roll on slight corruption table. 2 Snag Points can get Dazed 2 rounds, Stunned 1 round, random roll on major corruption, 2 Snag Points allow for 2 rounds of Stun or choice of one slight corruption, etc..