Non-Adepts

[butscharoni]

So, finally some time for playtesting and time to create a new character!

Now, I have some questions about non-adepts and learning Spells.
As far as I understood, everyone can learn Universal Sphere Spells. So, how exactly does this work?

Well, I assume i need to buy at least one rank in Spellcraft? Otherwise, I would get -10 and how would I ever be able to cast with that?
Then, since I have no school of magic as a non-adept, Spellcraft would use INT instead of WIS. Check.
Would Spellcraft now be Spellcraft (Universal), or would a school only be chosen if I should ever become a Major or Minor Adept and thus my Spellcraft skill will become Spellcraft (Now chosen school)?
Also, what about Magecraft? Would I need that as well? Seems, it is used to determine the number of spells I could learn. Level + 3 + Magecraft Rank. But would that just be Level + 3 if I would not buy it or would I need at least one rank in it?
Add to that the not low cost of Spells themselves... I already see this getting rather expensive. Did I miss anything else I would need?

[imported_Rasyr]

So, finally some time for playtesting and time to create a new character!

Now, I have some questions about non-adepts and learning Spells.
As far as I understood, everyone can learn Universal Sphere Spells. So, how exactly does this work?

Well, I assume i need to buy at least one rank in Spellcraft? Otherwise, I would get -10 and how would I ever be able to cast with that?
Then, since I have no school of magic as a non-adept, Spellcraft would use INT instead of WIS. Check.

Yup

Would Spellcraft now be Spellcraft (Universal), or would a school only be chosen if I should ever become a Major or Minor Adept and thus my Spellcraft skill will become Spellcraft (Now chosen school)?

Well,  I wouldn't put a tag on it unless/until you gained access to a specific school of magic. There are, IIRC, 3 different Talents that could allow for that. When you learn a specific school of magic universal is included in it. Universal spells are basically cast using the highest Spellcraft skill, and you only learn multiple spellcraft skills if you have access to multiple schools of magic.

Also, what about Magecraft? Would I need that as well? Seems, it is used to determine the number of spells I could learn. Level + 3 + Magecraft Rank. But would that just be Level + 3 if I would not buy it or would I need at least one rank in it?

Personally, I would require purchasing at least one rank. -- Note to self, I need to add that to the skill description, and I also need to adjust that example to specify that the example has only 4 ranks.

Add to that the not low cost of Spells themselves... I already see this getting rather expensive.



Yup. The idea is that Non Adepts can learn magic, but that it is EXTREMELY expensive for them to do so...

Did I miss anything else I would need?

Spell Points? But those don't cost anything...

[Fidoric]

Quote from: butscharoni on Today at 01:54:09 AM
Would Spellcraft now be Spellcraft (Universal), or would a school only be chosen if I should ever become a Major or Minor Adept and thus my Spellcraft skill will become Spellcraft (Now chosen school)?


Well,  I wouldn't put a tag on it unless/until you gained access to a specific school of magic. There are, IIRC, 3 different Talents that could allow for that. When you learn a specific school of magic universal is included in it. Universal spells are basically cast using the highest Spellcraft skill, and you only learn multiple spellcraft skills if you have access to multiple schools of magic.

Hello everybody,
I think I still need some clarifications on this point. As I read it, you cannot become a adept after character creation as it is a non trainable talent. So a non adept will remain just that, a non-adept, but may learn spells with (lots of) CP expenditure.
If this non adept buy the "extra school of magic talent", he now has access to universal spells (as previously) plus one sphere of magic. When casting universal spells, he may then choose to use either one of his spellcraft skills or does his existing spellcraft skill mutate to become a spellcraft skill (specific school) and then what about the stat to use with it ? Does it remain Int or is it changed to reflect this new link to magic ?

Universal spells are always considered to belong to the caster's main School of Magic.

I feel that this quote (p37) supports the second option, making the previous body of universal spells a part of the newly acquired school of magic.

I hope my post and my questions are clearer than my brain at this time... 
I am sure you are addressing this point in your last post Tim, but after several very short nights, somehow I fail to understand your answer and definitely need help and patience.

Fidoric

[imported_Rasyr]

I think I still need some clarifications on this point. As I read it, you cannot become a adept after character creation as it is a non trainable talent. So a non adept will remain just that, a non-adept, but may learn spells with (lots of) CP expenditure.

Non-Trainable basically means that the player isn't allowed to choose that freely. The final call is up to the GM, and a GM may always decide that in his campaign, those Talents are trainable. I cannot discount that possibility in my answer.

Additionally, even though a Talent is marked as Non-Trainable, players may still select them for their characters at the time of character creation. The Trainable aspect only comes into play AFTER chargen.

If this non adept buy the "extra school of magic talent", he now has access to universal spells (as previously) plus one sphere of magic. When casting universal spells, he may then choose to use either one of his spellcraft skills or does his existing spellcraft skill mutate to become a spellcraft skill (specific school) and then what about the stat to use with it ? Does it remain Int or is it changed to reflect this new link to magic ?

A character will only have a maximum of 2 Schools of Magic. If he has no access to any School, then his spellcraft skill uses the Int stat and only Universal spells may be learned.

If he somehow acquires a school of magic, where previously he had none, then his the stat for his spellcraft skill will change to that for his School of Magic, and he will use that Spellcraft skill for BOTH Universal Spells and that School of Magic.

If he then learns a second School of Magic somehow, then he will have to learn a second Spellcraft Skill.

Is that any clearer?

[Fidoric]

Thanks for the answer, it's very clear to me now.
And I agree with you on the first point, the GM rules in everything.
Fidoric

[butscharoni]

Ha, I didn't even notice the adept talents are not trainable. Is there a specific reason for this?

[imported_Rasyr]

Why do some universal spells have much higher cost than others when their utility seems to be much the same? Example would be repair vs. clean. In HARP for example, both were cantrips and seem to have comparable use, yet repair is more expensive in Novus.
Is there a specific reason for this?

Yes, because of the spell creation rules (See Libram Novus #1 for these -- http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=88168 ).

Both spells use the Spell Base of Transform, but they do different levels of transformation, and that means a higher Casting Target Number for Repair, and that means (possibly) a different CP cost and different Spell Point cost according to the rules given.

The spell creation rules in HARP were a lot more.... freeform, I guess you would call it. They are a bit more structured (and work completely differently) in Novus.