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Offline Tywyll

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Initial Thoughts
« on: May 14, 2011, 02:17:45 PM »
Well, I just downloaded Novus and am making my way through it.  A few things jumped out at me:
1) Elves -3 to Willpower.  Novus' Rolemaster roots are showing... I've always despised the 'low Self-Discipline' view of elves (since it nver matched their primary influence, i.e. Tolkien).  BUT... I guess since Willpower does not seem to have as large an effect on the game, its not as odious.  At least it doesn't cripple their ability to sneak...  Still, for a race with supposedly amazing Impulse Control, the idea of such a huge penalty to Willpower doesn't make much sense.

2) Half-Orcs, the Chosen Race.  Sturdy Build seems way unbalanced.  Its also the kind of ability I'd expect to see on a Dwarf, but its not something you can purchase as a talent, so only Half-Orcs get it.  If attribute modifiers for races are neutral, then I think this ability either needs to go away (maybe just give them the extra Hit Points) or it needs to be something that anyone can purchase at first level (why can you have an exceptionally Sturdy Human or Elf or whatever?).

3) Fate Points-I assume when these are spent, they are gone for good until you gain more upon leveling?  I couldn't see that specifically stated (though I may have missed it).  Considering the example has a character blowing 3 on a sneak roll, it kind of seems like they ARE NOT permanently spent.  If they are permanently spent... I really don't think you should roll their effect.  I think they should add or subtract a flat +5 or more.  Otherwise their use can go from amazing to completely pointless, which kind of seems to run contrary to the point of having such a mechanic in the first place.

4) "Spoken Elven and Written Elven count as a single language when determining how many languages a character knows. The same applies for the spoken and written forms of other languages as well."  If the same applies to other languages, why is Elven mentioned at all?  Why not just say-Learning a language allows you to both read and speak it, if there is a written form to the language.  Or something similar?

5) AR is total AR from all the parts of armor worn, unless its a called shot, right?  I couldn't find this spelled out in the armor equipment section or basics of combat, but I may have missed it.

6) Save versus Will to avoid losing a spell when hit in combat... ah, here is where Elves suck thanks to the RM holdover.  Not really great combat casters are they?  I find it odd that this is simply a stat save and there is nothing (like a Concentration Skill) that can modify it (or did I miss something in the skill section?).

7) I'm very much against the Armor Impediment rules for spell casting.  Novus seems like its supposed to be a generic rpg, and not everyone agrees with Gary's notion that spell casters and armor don't mix.  Casters do not seem wildly more powerful than non-casters, so why do they need this 'balance' limitation put in?  They already have to pay to learn to wear armor.  Especially by type (Divine Magic, Paladins, even Black Magic, all have a long tradition of being usable by armored casters).  I'd rather see this as an optional rule, or at least there exist Talents to address this.  However, at least its not a casting penalty. 

8 ) Since casters can't wear armor by default, then there should be a Protection/Mage Armor/Shield type spell in Universal or in every school. 

9) Why does Wisdom act as a 'kicker' stat to several spells (like Infernal Bolt and Heal Bruise)?  Shouldn't that be based on your Magic Stat?  If this is intentional, I really think it should be changed to Magic Stat.

10) Summon Familiar... think there should be options other then demons and devils.  It is a Universal Spell, so divine casters and non-black magicians should get something equivalent (even if it uses the same stats just refluffed to something not evil).  Otherwise this should be a Black Magic spell.

11) Boons and Spells-to make sure I understand how you apply casting boons... if someone increased the numerical effect of Faith Healing by 1 Boon point, that would let them heal 20+2xWis mod.  Is that right?

12) Opposed rolls seem needlessly complex.  Rolling to succeed at a task should be just that.  I don't understand why you need to, for example, succeed at being stealthy before the opponent must see if they spot you.  Why would there be an initial difficulty with a pass/fail point?  If John can fail his Stealth roll then surely the guard can also fail his spot, even though John made a noise (i.e. they both fail their initial test).  As the rules read, the second character has the advantage (and there is no guidance on determining who is the primary and who is the secondary character... in a stealth versus perception, who is to say the stealth test should be the primary and the perception reactive?  One could argue it could work either way).  Since the primary roller is at a disadvantage, because they can fail and the other character automatically succeed without a roll, it behooves people to try to be the reactive individual.

It seems this would be far simpler and more intuitive to simply have a straight roll of their skills...highest wins. 

13) Basilisk-why do you save vs Will to 'avoid meeting its gaze'?  Surely that should either be a choice ('I don't look at it.'  'Ok, fight it blindly') or perhaps a save vs Speed to look away quickly or something?

14) First off, I LOVE the idea of the Boon system in combat.  I've only seen something similar in one other system (Zir'An), and I always thought it was an excellent idea.  However, I do think that the combat effects that cause effects unless a save is made need to be looked at.  Why spend 5 boon points to death strike someone when a measly TN15 save negates it?  Maybe the attacker's level could be added?

15) Having played around with char gen a bit, I feel like attribute modifiers are functionally negligible.  The bonus is too small, and the scope is too large (by which I mean the fact that the bonus increases by 1 for every 3 points).  After a few levels, the attribute bonus will hardly be felt.  This was also an issue I had with RM and Harp.  I really feel the chart should go: 10-11 +0; 12-13 +1; 14-15 +2; 16-17+3; 18-19 +4; 20-21 +5, etc.  While this won't entirely remove the issue of attributes diminishing significance at higher levels, it will spread it out some.  It would also make it so that someone who has maxed out an attribute gets a benefit for it (there is no current benefit to having anything higher than a 19, unless your race breaks the 21 point cap). 

Anyway, I like a lot of what I see here.  I think this could be really good.  I'm curious how it plays at high level (20th, 50th, etc) and whether the math holds out or not (most games break down at that point!).  I'm even toying a playtest on Rpg.net though I haven't decided.

I'd love to see more combat maneuvers, spells, and (most importantly) Talents.  That would really make this game rock (even more) I think. 

 

imported_Rasyr

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Initial Thoughts
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2011, 03:37:58 PM »
First off, let me say, welcome to the forums!!




Well, I just downloaded Novus and am making my way through it.  A few things jumped out at me:
1) Elves -3 to Willpower.  Novus' Rolemaster roots are showing... I've always despised the 'low Self-Discipline' view of elves (since it nver matched their primary influence, i.e. Tolkien).  BUT... I guess since Willpower does not seem to have as large an effect on the game, its not as odious.  At least it doesn't cripple their ability to sneak...  Still, for a race with supposedly amazing Impulse Control, the idea of such a huge penalty to Willpower doesn't make much sense.




Well, Rolemaster and/or HARP had been my system of choice for over 10 years, and I used to work for Mjolnir (who was the last company, before the current one, doing business as ICE), so it shouldn't be surprising that it has influenced me to some degree - though I did try to make a conscious effort to try to limit those influences to things that can also be found in other systems as well.

And actually, Elves do not have amazing "impulse control", they are often easily distracted (compared to the other races) or side-tracked.

Now, this has nothing to do with them making long terms plans or waiting for such long term plans to come to fruition. Things that do not need 100% attention for long periods of time. Thus they can afford to let their attention wander in the long run.

Additionally, you have to remember that the stat modifiers are to the raw stats themselves, NOT to the stat bonuses. So the -3 to Willpower means that Elves can have a maximum Willpower of 17 and their stat bonuses will be the same as any other character with a total stat of 17.





2) Half-Orcs, the Chosen Race.  Sturdy Build seems way unbalanced.  Its also the kind of ability I'd expect to see on a Dwarf, but its not something you can purchase as a talent, so only Half-Orcs get it.  If attribute modifiers for races are neutral, then I think this ability either needs to go away (maybe just give them the extra Hit Points) or it needs to be something that anyone can purchase at first level (why can you have an exceptionally Sturdy Human or Elf or whatever?).




Yes, Sturdy Build is too powerful (and this has been discussed in several other threads), and it will be getting adjusted accordingly in the next Open Beta update.




3) Fate Points-I assume when these are spent, they are gone for good until you gain more upon leveling?  I couldn't see that specifically stated (though I may have missed it).  Considering the example has a character blowing 3 on a sneak roll, it kind of seems like they ARE NOT permanently spent.  If they are permanently spent... I really don't think you should roll their effect.  I think they should add or subtract a flat +5 or more.  Otherwise their use can go from amazing to completely pointless, which kind of seems to run contrary to the point of having such a mechanic in the first place.




Hmm.. having them give a static bonus (such as a +5) gives another option (i.e. you can spend one to get a +5, or take the chance to get something higher, with the attendant risk of getting something lower.

One of the things in discussion is possibly making them regenerate each session. But then again, you also gain a Fate Point every time you make a Nova Roll as well.




4) "Spoken Elven and Written Elven count as a single language when determining how many languages a character knows. The same applies for the spoken and written forms of other languages as well."  If the same applies to other languages, why is Elven mentioned at all?  Why not just say-Learning a language allows you to both read and speak it, if there is a written form to the language.  Or something similar?




Writing a language and speaking a language is treated as a single language for determining how many may be learned overall. However, each must be learned separately.

Now, there will be some languages with only a spoken form and no written form and some where all that remains is the written form and the spoken form of it is dead.

The idea here is to allow more flexibility overall.




5) AR is total AR from all the parts of armor worn, unless its a called shot, right?  I couldn't find this spelled out in the armor equipment section or basics of combat, but I may have missed it.




Yes, unless dealing with a called strick, the sum of AR from all armor worn is subtracted from attacks.

Things like this are why Novus is in Open Beta -- to find the little quirks and fix them, or find where I don't say something explicitly when it needs to be said explicitly.




6) Save versus Will to avoid losing a spell when hit in combat... ah, here is where Elves suck thanks to the RM holdover.  Not really great combat casters are they?  I find it odd that this is simply a stat save and there is nothing (like a Concentration Skill) that can modify it (or did I miss something in the skill section?).




Actually, we may need to change that so that the Save uses the Magic Stat. In a previous version of the rules, Will was the only stat used in the Spellcasting skill, so the Save to keep from losing the spell also used Will.

Thanks, I will be taking a second look at this now, to see if it really is something that needs fixing.




7) I'm very much against the Armor Impediment rules for spell casting.  Novus seems like its supposed to be a generic rpg, and not everyone agrees with Gary's notion that spell casters and armor don't mix.  Casters do not seem wildly more powerful than non-casters, so why do they need this 'balance' limitation put in?  They already have to pay to learn to wear armor.  Especially by type (Divine Magic, Paladins, even Black Magic, all have a long tradition of being usable by armored casters).  I'd rather see this as an optional rule, or at least there exist Talents to address this.  However, at least its not a casting penalty. 




Without this sort of balance factor, most folks would play spell users and not other , non-spellcasting classes.






8 ) Since casters can't wear armor by default, then there should be a Protection/Mage Armor/Shield type spell in Universal or in every school. 




Will consider that...




9) Why does Wisdom act as a 'kicker' stat to several spells (like Infernal Bolt and Heal Bruise)?  Shouldn't that be based on your Magic Stat?  If this is intentional, I really think it should be changed to Magic Stat.




It should be based on the Magic stat -- good catch.... sigh... something else for me to fix....




10) Summon Familiar... think there should be options other then demons and devils.  It is a Universal Spell, so divine casters and non-black magicians should get something equivalent (even if it uses the same stats just refluffed to something not evil).  Otherwise this should be a Black Magic spell.




Others have made the same comment. I think that adding in Nature Spirits would aid in resolving this, along with some adjustments of the numbers.




11) Boons and Spells-to make sure I understand how you apply casting boons... if someone increased the numerical effect of Faith Healing by 1 Boon point, that would let them heal 20+2xWis mod.  Is that right?




Yes. The table actually gives an example (looks like I should change the example so that the Base # of hits healed is higher than 1).




12) Opposed rolls seem needlessly complex.  Rolling to succeed at a task should be just that.  I don't understand why you need to, for example, succeed at being stealthy before the opponent must see if they spot you.  Why would there be an initial difficulty with a pass/fail point?  If John can fail his Stealth roll then surely the guard can also fail his spot, even though John made a noise (i.e. they both fail their initial test).  As the rules read, the second character has the advantage (and there is no guidance on determining who is the primary and who is the secondary character... in a stealth versus perception, who is to say the stealth test should be the primary and the perception reactive?  One could argue it could work either way).  Since the primary roller is at a disadvantage, because they can fail and the other character automatically succeed without a roll, it behooves people to try to be the reactive individual.

It seems this would be far simpler and more intuitive to simply have a straight roll of their skills...highest wins. 




Part of it deals with making the second roll be based on the success/failure of the first.

If the person doing the sneaking fails his roll (and the TN of the first roll should be determined normally, based on the situation).

If somebody in dark clothing is trying to sneak past a gaurd in a room with bright light and no shadows, the TN of the sneaker's roll should be much higher (maybe TN30), so, even if he does succeed, the amount over won't make the defender's roll to hard to be succesful.

Conversely, if the sneaker wears dark clothes and that area is in heavy shadows, the TN of the Stealth roll should be lower, and thus making the TN of the Perception that much more difficult to be successful.

The situation makes an impact. In a straight roll vs. roll, the situation has little to no impact on the opposed roll, only the number of skill ranks does.


Active/Passive may need more explanation.

For example, attempting to sneak past a guard makes the sneaking (Stealth Skill) be the active skill and the Perception skill be the passive.

Turn that around and have a guard searching (Perception Skill) for somebody who is hiding (Stealth Skill), and Perception is the active skill and Stealth the passive one...




13) Basilisk-why do you save vs Will to 'avoid meeting its gaze'?  Surely that should either be a choice ('I don't look at it.'  'Ok, fight it blindly') or perhaps a save vs Speed to look away quickly or something?




Will roll just seemed the most appropriate. If you are fighting it while blind-folded, then you wouldn't have to make the will roll because you couldn't possibly meet its gaze.

However, if you are trying to fight it while also trying to not look it in the eye (while it is also trying to make you look at its eyes), then you have to make a roll, and Will seems the most appropriate to me.




14) First off, I LOVE the idea of the Boon system in combat.  I've only seen something similar in one other system (Zir'An), and I always thought it was an excellent idea.  However, I do think that the combat effects that cause effects unless a save is made need to be looked at.  Why spend 5 boon points to death strike someone when a measly TN15 save negates it?  Maybe the attacker's level could be added?




You are forgetting that the TN is increased by 2 for every Boon Point that the attack earned. This means that the Base TN of a Save vs. Death Strike is 25, not 15 (though this could be lower if a Fate Point was used to increase the number of Boon Points earned).

Hmm... I wouldn't add level, but I might change it to make the TN be equal to 15 + # of ranks in the attacking skill (i.e. not total skill bonus). So, if the character has 5 ranks, the TN would be 20, if he had 20 ranks, the TN would be 35, etc..




Anyway, I like a lot of what I see here.  I think this could be really good.  I'm curious how it plays at high level (20th, 50th, etc) and whether the math holds out or not (most games break down at that point!).  I'm even toying a playtest on Rpg.net though I haven't decided.




I would be interested in knowing the results myself.


I'd love to see more combat maneuvers, spells, and (most importantly) Talents.  That would really make this game rock (even more) I think. 




More all those are to come. But they won't be in the core rules (because I am trying to keep the page count down, thus make it more affordable overall...

Offline Tywyll

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Initial Thoughts
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2011, 04:20:12 PM »

First off, let me say, welcome to the forums!!




Thanks!




Well, I just downloaded Novus and am making my way through it.  A few things jumped out at me:
1) Elves -3 to Willpower.  Novus' Rolemaster roots are showing... I've always despised the 'low Self-Discipline' view of elves (since it nver matched their primary influence, i.e. Tolkien).  BUT... I guess since Willpower does not seem to have as large an effect on the game, its not as odious.  At least it doesn't cripple their ability to sneak...  Still, for a race with supposedly amazing Impulse Control, the idea of such a huge penalty to Willpower doesn't make much sense.


Well, Rolemaster and/or HARP had been my system of choice for over 10 years, and I used to work for Mjolnir (who was the last company, before the current one, doing business as ICE), so it shouldn't be surprising that it has influenced me to some degree - though I did try to make a conscious effort to try to limit those influences to things that can also be found in other systems as well.

And actually, Elves do not have amazing "impulse control", they are often easily distracted (compared to the other races) or side-tracked.

Now, this has nothing to do with them making long terms plans or waiting for such long term plans to come to fruition. Things that do not need 100% attention for long periods of time. Thus they can afford to let their attention wander in the long run.

Additionally, you have to remember that the stat modifiers are to the raw stats themselves, NOT to the stat bonuses. So the -3 to Willpower means that Elves can have a maximum Willpower of 17 and their stat bonuses will be the same as any other character with a total stat of 17.




Yeah, I know.  That's why I made reference to RM and Harp.



2) Half-Orcs, the Chosen Race.  Sturdy Build seems way unbalanced.  Its also the kind of ability I'd expect to see on a Dwarf, but its not something you can purchase as a talent, so only Half-Orcs get it.  If attribute modifiers for races are neutral, then I think this ability either needs to go away (maybe just give them the extra Hit Points) or it needs to be something that anyone can purchase at first level (why can you have an exceptionally Sturdy Human or Elf or whatever?).


Yes, Sturdy Build is too powerful (and this has been discussed in several other threads), and it will be getting adjusted accordingly in the next Open Beta update.




Cool.





3) Fate Points-I assume when these are spent, they are gone for good until you gain more upon leveling?  I couldn't see that specifically stated (though I may have missed it).  Considering the example has a character blowing 3 on a sneak roll, it kind of seems like they ARE NOT permanently spent.  If they are permanently spent... I really don't think you should roll their effect.  I think they should add or subtract a flat +5 or more.  Otherwise their use can go from amazing to completely pointless, which kind of seems to run contrary to the point of having such a mechanic in the first place.


Hmm.. having them give a static bonus (such as a +5) gives another option (i.e. you can spend one to get a +5, or take the chance to get something higher, with the attendant risk of getting something lower.

One of the things in discussion is possibly making them regenerate each session. But then again, you also gain a Fate Point every time you make a Nova Roll as well.




I think its ok if they are spent permanently (or if they refresh, both work).  I think if they refresh, you could add a Talent (lucky, Very Lucky) which would change your starting amount.  But if they are permanently spent, I'd rather they be really meaningful. 





4) "Spoken Elven and Written Elven count as a single language when determining how many languages a character knows. The same applies for the spoken and written forms of other languages as well."  If the same applies to other languages, why is Elven mentioned at all?  Why not just say-Learning a language allows you to both read and speak it, if there is a written form to the language.  Or something similar?


Writing a language and speaking a language is treated as a single language for determining how many may be learned overall. However, each must be learned separately.

Now, there will be some languages with only a spoken form and no written form and some where all that remains is the written form and the spoken form of it is dead.

The idea here is to allow more flexibility overall.




That's fine (though I totally DID not come away from that section realizing that's what you meant).  What I mean is, why mention elven in one sentence and in the second say that they all act the same?




5) AR is total AR from all the parts of armor worn, unless its a called shot, right?  I couldn't find this spelled out in the armor equipment section or basics of combat, but I may have missed it.


Yes, unless dealing with a called strick, the sum of AR from all armor worn is subtracted from attacks.

Things like this are why Novus is in Open Beta -- to find the little quirks and fix them, or find where I don't say something explicitly when it needs to be said explicitly.




Cool.  I assumed it, but couldn't find it to verify it.




6) Save versus Will to avoid losing a spell when hit in combat... ah, here is where Elves suck thanks to the RM holdover.  Not really great combat casters are they?  I find it odd that this is simply a stat save and there is nothing (like a Concentration Skill) that can modify it (or did I miss something in the skill section?).


Actually, we may need to change that so that the Save uses the Magic Stat. In a previous version of the rules, Will was the only stat used in the Spellcasting skill, so the Save to keep from losing the spell also used Will.

Thanks, I will be taking a second look at this now, to see if it really is something that needs fixing.




Ah, yeah, I think making it based on the Magic Stat would be great. 





7) I'm very much against the Armor Impediment rules for spell casting.  Novus seems like its supposed to be a generic rpg, and not everyone agrees with Gary's notion that spell casters and armor don't mix.  Casters do not seem wildly more powerful than non-casters, so why do they need this 'balance' limitation put in?  They already have to pay to learn to wear armor.  Especially by type (Divine Magic, Paladins, even Black Magic, all have a long tradition of being usable by armored casters).  I'd rather see this as an optional rule, or at least there exist Talents to address this.  However, at least its not a casting penalty. 


Without this sort of balance factor, most folks would play spell users and not other , non-spellcasting classes.




I'm not sure I agree with that.  I've known tons of players that will not play a casting class (or specific casting classes) no matter what mechanical advantages they possess.  I honestly think the better way to handle it is to make non-casters have their own advantages and bonuses that make them just as desirable.  You know, maybe Combat Training 2 can only be purchased at first level like Major Adapt, or limit it so that no character can have both Combat Training 2 and Major Adapt (that might be a simpler method).  So you immediately have an opportunity cost to your choice of archtype, one or the other.

Alternatively, make a Talent that allows casting in armor without penalty so people like me can grumble less...




9) Why does Wisdom act as a 'kicker' stat to several spells (like Infernal Bolt and Heal Bruise)?  Shouldn't that be based on your Magic Stat?  If this is intentional, I really think it should be changed to Magic Stat.


It should be based on the Magic stat -- good catch.... sigh... something else for me to fix....





Glad I could help!


10) Summon Familiar... think there should be options other then demons and devils.  It is a Universal Spell, so divine casters and non-black magicians should get something equivalent (even if it uses the same stats just refluffed to something not evil).  Otherwise this should be a Black Magic spell.




Others have made the same comment. I think that adding in Nature Spirits would aid in resolving this, along with some adjustments of the numbers.


Yeah, even make a few 'minor angelic beings'.  Stats could basically be the same, but there's no reason the forces of the Gods should have their own magic pets!





11) Boons and Spells-to make sure I understand how you apply casting boons... if someone increased the numerical effect of Faith Healing by 1 Boon point, that would let them heal 20+2xWis mod.  Is that right?


Yes. The table actually gives an example (looks like I should change the example so that the Base # of hits healed is higher than 1).




Yeah, I saw that.  It just seemed to be a huge jump for something like Faith Healing.  But that's cool that I understood that right.





12) Opposed rolls seem needlessly complex.  Rolling to succeed at a task should be just that.  I don't understand why you need to, for example, succeed at being stealthy before the opponent must see if they spot you.  Why would there be an initial difficulty with a pass/fail point?  If John can fail his Stealth roll then surely the guard can also fail his spot, even though John made a noise (i.e. they both fail their initial test).  As the rules read, the second character has the advantage (and there is no guidance on determining who is the primary and who is the secondary character... in a stealth versus perception, who is to say the stealth test should be the primary and the perception reactive?  One could argue it could work either way).  Since the primary roller is at a disadvantage, because they can fail and the other character automatically succeed without a roll, it behooves people to try to be the reactive individual.

It seems this would be far simpler and more intuitive to simply have a straight roll of their skills...highest wins. 


Part of it deals with making the second roll be based on the success/failure of the first.

If the person doing the sneaking fails his roll (and the TN of the first roll should be determined normally, based on the situation).

If somebody in dark clothing is trying to sneak past a gaurd in a room with bright light and no shadows, the TN of the sneaker's roll should be much higher (maybe TN30), so, even if he does succeed, the amount over won't make the defender's roll to hard to be succesful.

Conversely, if the sneaker wears dark clothes and that area is in heavy shadows, the TN of the Stealth roll should be lower, and thus making the TN of the Perception that much more difficult to be successful.

The situation makes an impact. In a straight roll vs. roll, the situation has little to no impact on the opposed roll, only the number of skill ranks does.




I understand your reasoning, but I disagree with your last statement there.  There is nothing saying you can't apply those modifiers to the direct roll.

Bob is sneaking in bright room while wearing a clown suit.  The bright room subtracts 5 from his roll and the clown suit subtracts 3.  He rolls his stealth (-


Active/Passive may need more explanation.

For example, attempting to sneak past a guard makes the sneaking (Stealth Skill) be the active skill and the Perception skill be the passive.

Turn that around and have a guard searching (Perception Skill) for somebody who is hiding (Stealth Skill), and Perception is the active skill and Stealth the passive one...




Yeah, and to me that's a problem, because the advantage in RAW is always to the passive character because they get an auto success if the Active character fails. 





13) Basilisk-why do you save vs Will to 'avoid meeting its gaze'?  Surely that should either be a choice ('I don't look at it.'  'Ok, fight it blindly') or perhaps a save vs Speed to look away quickly or something?


Will roll just seemed the most appropriate. If you are fighting it while blind-folded, then you wouldn't have to make the will roll because you couldn't possibly meet its gaze.

However, if you are trying to fight it while also trying to not look it in the eye (while it is also trying to make you look at its eyes), then you have to make a roll, and Will seems the most appropriate to me.




Unless it's exerting some sort of mental influence to draw a person's gaze, I don't really understand, but its a small thing.





14) First off, I LOVE the idea of the Boon system in combat.  I've only seen something similar in one other system (Zir'An), and I always thought it was an excellent idea.  However, I do think that the combat effects that cause effects unless a save is made need to be looked at.  Why spend 5 boon points to death strike someone when a measly TN15 save negates it?  Maybe the attacker's level could be added?


You are forgetting that the TN is increased by 2 for every Boon Point that the attack earned. This means that the Base TN of a Save vs. Death Strike is 25, not 15 (though this could be lower if a Fate Point was used to increase the number of Boon Points earned).

Hmm... I wouldn't add level, but I might change it to make the TN be equal to 15 + # of ranks in the attacking skill (i.e. not total skill bonus). So, if the character has 5 ranks, the TN would be 20, if he had 20 ranks, the TN would be 35, etc..




Yeah, I totally missed that about the TN increasing with BP earned.  Where is that?  If that's the case, its probably sufficient... though without some sort of scaling, eventually at high levels even a 25 TN won't be much of an issue (granted, we are talking like level 13+).





Anyway, I like a lot of what I see here.  I think this could be really good.  I'm curious how it plays at high level (20th, 50th, etc) and whether the math holds out or not (most games break down at that point!).  I'm even toying a playtest on Rpg.net though I haven't decided.


I would be interested in knowing the results myself.



I'll let you know if I decide to do it.





I'd love to see more combat maneuvers, spells, and (most importantly) Talents.  That would really make this game rock (even more) I think. 


More all those are to come. But they won't be in the core rules (because I am trying to keep the page count down, thus make it more affordable overall...




Makes sense.  thanks for the quick response!

imported_Rasyr

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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2011, 04:54:48 PM »

Yeah, I know.  That's why I made reference to RM and Harp.



Elves are going to most likely stay like they are. Better at long term goals than short term ones.

And as pointed out, Willpower isn't a large impact on a lot of skills or other things right now anyways.

All the stat mod really says is that Elves cannot be as good in Willpower as another race...






4) "Spoken Elven and Written Elven ....


Writing a language and speaking a language is treated as a single language for determining how many may be learned overall. However, each must be learned separately.


That's fine (though I totally DID not come away from that section realizing that's what you meant).  What I mean is, why mention elven in one sentence and in the second say that they all act the same?




Elven was mentioned as an example, to provide something recognizable... hehe 


I'm not sure I agree with that.  I've known tons of players that will not play a casting class (or specific casting classes) no matter what mechanical advantages they possess.  I honestly think the better way to handle it is to make non-casters have their own advantages and bonuses that make them just as desirable.  You know, maybe Combat Training 2 can only be purchased at first level like Major Adapt, or limit it so that no character can have both Combat Training 2 and Major Adapt (that might be a simpler method).  So you immediately have an opportunity cost to your choice of archtype, one or the other.

Alternatively, make a Talent that allows casting in armor without penalty so people like me can grumble less...



Allowing spell users to wear armor without penalty invites min-maxing and abuse. Just because you haven't run into it, doesn't mean it isn't there. The ESF rules in RM were added BECAUSE of abuse by one of the designers...

I feel that it is better to have such rules in place, and let a GM ignore them for his specific game than to not have them and let some novice GM get pummeled over it...




Yeah, even make a few 'minor angelic beings'.  Stats could basically be the same, but there's no reason the forces of the Gods should have their own magic pets!




I will look into it -- again, I still have to deal with the page count.






I understand your reasoning, but I disagree with your last statement there.  There is nothing saying you can't apply those modifiers to the direct roll.

Bob is sneaking in bright room while wearing a clown suit.  The bright room subtracts 5 from his roll and the clown suit subtracts 3.  He rolls his stealth (-



Opposed rolls ARE one of the things under consideration, that I have made no decisions about.




Yeah, and to me that's a problem, because the advantage in RAW is always to the passive character because they get an auto success if the Active character fails. 




Actually, it isn't auto-success, or wasn't meant to be, if the active skill roll failed. It made things easier for the Passive skill user, but not automatic...





Yeah, I totally missed that about the TN increasing with BP earned.  Where is that?  If that's the case, its probably sufficient... though without some sort of scaling, eventually at high levels even a 25 TN won't be much of an issue (granted, we are talking like level 13+).




Look on the Combat Boon table, in the description of the Death Strike option.

Offline Tywyll

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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2011, 10:35:15 PM »
15) Having played around with char gen a bit, I feel like attribute modifiers are functionally negligible.  The bonus is too small, and the scope is too large (by which I mean the fact that the bonus increases by 1 for every 3 points).  After a few levels, the attribute bonus will hardly be felt.  This was also an issue I had with RM and Harp.  I really feel the chart should go: 10-11 +0; 12-13 +1; 14-15 +2; 16-17+3; 18-19 +4; 20-21 +5, etc.  While this won't entirely remove the issue of attributes diminishing significance at higher levels, it will spread it out some.  It would also make it so that someone who has maxed out an attribute gets a benefit for it (there is no current benefit to having anything higher than a 19, unless your race breaks the 21 point cap).