Weapon Kata Question

[bigmac44]

I'm a little unclear on what fighting with the weapon kata trait is supposed to represent.  When using weapon kata am I still considered to be making unarmed attacks?  If I attacked an enemy that does damage if I touch it (say a fire elemental), will I still take damage?  If I use spells that buff my unarmed attack (e.g., Touch of the Grave from black magic or Chi Focus from the Monk school of magic) will it buff my weapon kata attacks? If I use spells that buff my weapon (e.g., a Warrior Mage's Storm Shock) would that buff my weapon kata attacks?

[Fidoric]

Basically weapon katas are used to enhance your unarmed fighting. They increase your base damage and, as I see it, they may grant you access to both armed and unarmed combat moves.
I would be lenient and allow players to gain benefits from both armed and unarmed boost for example:

- AB or damage bonus from enchanted weapons,
- AP cost of an unarmed attack,
- choice of which form of attack he uses (sword blade against a fire elemental or hand if under a Touch of the grave effect.

I have not encountered that situation though so have play tested none of the above propositions.

[imported_Rasyr]

I'm a little unclear on what fighting with the weapon kata trait is supposed to represent.  When using weapon kata am I still considered to be making unarmed attacks?  If I attacked an enemy that does damage if I touch it (say a fire elemental), will I still take damage?  If I use spells that buff my unarmed attack (e.g., Touch of the Grave from black magic or Chi Focus from the Monk school of magic) will it buff my weapon kata attacks? If I use spells that buff my weapon (e.g., a Warrior Mage's Storm Shock) would that buff my weapon kata attacks?

Officially...

Using a weapon kata to attack something that would damage you if you touched it -- you would be treated as any other person using a weapon.

As for buffing spells -- spells that buff you, do not effect the weapon (unless they specifically say so) -- however, if the buff affects something like your Attack Bonus, that would apply, since it is targeting your skill, not your weapon or your damage. Spells that buff the weapon, work normally.

[Fidoric]

I have thought a little further about this and come up with a question. Following the current rules, what interest do you have to buy a large weapon as a weapon kata? It costs you more (eg. Quarterstaff in Sanju costs 4DP whereas baton costs only 1 DP) but gives no additional benefits in terms of damage for example.
It may be something we have overlooked or... only me missing something.

[imported_Rasyr]

Nope, you are not missing anything. In fact, you have found a problem that I did not realize was there. When originally creating the rules for weapon katas I was a bit more concerned about making katas too powerful.

I wanted katas to improve the damage dealt, but not too much, and I wanted the damage to be based on the MA attack, to show that the weapon was an extension of the martial artist. But this was also prior to breaking out the kata purchase into weapon size, and that is where I made my mistake. I should have reconsidered damage at that point, to base it off the size of the kata weapon, since I am also basing the cost off the size of the weapon.

Proposed Errata

[b]Kata Damage using Melee Weapons[/b]

[list]The that a character wielding a weapon as part of a kata will be based upon the martial art attack used and the kata weapon itself. Normal weapons used as kata weapons will do 1/2 their normal Damage Rate as an add-on to the Base Damage of an attack that utilizes a weapon Kata.





[i]For example, a Hand Strike has a DR of 4. So a style, which uses Speed (bonus of +2) as the stat, and a baton as a kata weapon would, when using the kata weapon, have a Hand Strike that has a Base Damage of 8 (4 hand strike DR + 2 Speed + 1/2 DR of baton (1/2 * 4 = 2))[/i]

[/list]

[b]Kata Damage using Thrown Weapons[/b]

[list]

Base Damage ofr thrown kata weapons will be equal to the Damage Rating of the weapon + 2.

[/list]

How does that sound?

[Fidoric]

I was thinking of something like that. It sounds perfectly sound to me.

Besides, it emphasizes the fact that you are actually using an "unarmed" base attack (bas choice of word, meaning you use a MA style attack) so you can benefit from unarmed combat moves and combine them because they usually have a lower AP cost. You can combine a jab move with your weapon kata (low AP, reasonable damages) and a basic dodge for increased DEF.
Or is a weapon kata attack supposed to have an increased AP cost ? IMO, it is better if weapon kata attacks have the same AP cost as unarmed attack.

[imported_Rasyr]

weapon kata does not have increased AP cost, the costs to learn the kata are plenty

[Zut]

Hi!

I have a question too regarding weapon kata: do you need to buy the Talent Weapon kata[weapon] every time you take a new Combat Move in a Combat Style?

I second the errata!



Ps: I hope it is not against forum's laws to post a reply in an old message!

[imported_Rasyr]

Once you have a specific weapon kata you can use it with any of the moves in the combat style that you know.

You have to purchase it for each kata you want though...

[Zut]

Hi!

I have question regarding the proposed errata: for a Halfling character, the DR of both unarmed combat moves and weapon is reduced by one. If I use the example above, how would you handle odd numbers --> round up or down?

For a small character:

Hand Strike/Punch DR = 3
Baton DR = 3, for Weapon Kata(Baton) DR = 1.5
Speed Bonus = 2

Base Damage = 3 (Punch) + 1.5 (WK Baton) + 2 (Spd Bonus) = 6.5
Will it be 6 or 7?


For thrown weapon, I'm not sure I understand the change: it looks way better than the old version (and even better than the melee version).

Example (new version):
Imagine the Halfling is performing a Side Kick with a thrown dagger (can he aim at another foe?).
Side Kick DR = 5
Weapon Kata(Dagger) DR = 3 + 2 = 5
Speed Bonus = 2

Base Damage = 5 (Side Kick) + 5 (WK Dagger) + 2 (Spd Bonus) = 12!


Example (older version):
Imagine that the same Halfling is performing a Side Kick with a thrown dagger.
Side Kick DR = 5
Weapon Kata(Dagger) DR = 2
Speed Bonus = 2

Base Damage = 5 (Side Kick) + 2 (WK Dagger) + 2 (Spd Bonus) = 9


If I compare both the Side Kick examples to the Punch one, even when adjusting the DR, using a thrown weapon looks better in terms of damage amounts. Was it intended, or maybe some adjustments could be made?

Thanks!

[imported_Rasyr]

For half points -- round up.


Kata attacks for thrown weapons -- you would NOT add to another attack, you would make a thrown attack using the style's Attack Bonus (rather than the "Thrown xx" skill), and the damage would be the weapon DR+2 - it would NOT be used in conjunction with other attacks (such as the sidekick). The idea is to allow a style that let you know how to throw shurikens or things like that without having to learn another style.

[Zut]

ok, thanks!