Sword and Sorcery tweaks

[Dorchadas]

I noticed the mention of using Novus to run a Sword and Sorcery game, and since I'm actually planning to do that--a kind of mashup of Super Mario, Conan's Hyborian Age, and Clark Ashton Smith--I figured I'd include some of the tweaks I was thinking of using in this thread!

Change the Skill Names
Rename Spellcasting to Sorcery and Magecraft to Eldritch Lore. It's minor, but it helps set the mood.

Reduce Spell Point Regeneration
Another possibility is using the Hit Point version from Libram Novus 6, but I like the idea of hacking Spell Point regeneration down to 1 + the bonus from the appropriate spell list's favored attribute (minimum 1) per day, and then allowing casters to pull extra Spell Points from sacrifices, astrological conjunctions, or places of power, and store them in staves or jewelry.

Redo the Magic Lists
Black Magic and Spirit Magic work pretty well as-is, but a lot of the other lists are much more fantasy adventure than sword-and-sorcery. I'll probably make heavy use of the rituals rules I came up with as well.

[imported_Rasyr]

Those looks like some good suggestions.

Post more as you come up with them.

[Dorchadas]

I shall!

One thing I'm noticing, rereading through various Conan and Fahfrd and the Grey Mouser stories is that there are a lot of instant death spells--a spell that turns the touch of a staff into deadly snake poison, a spell that tears the heart out of a man's chest, a spell that summons corrosive acidic mist to envelope your enemies--but the way the Attack base works makes it prohibitively expensive to do it just by making a spell high damage and there doesn't seem to be an easy way to use another spell base to do it either.

I assume the lack of Save or Die spells is by design, but assuming I wanted to add them back in, do you have any advice on how you would do it mechanically?

[imported_Rasyr]

I assume the lack of Save or Die spells is by design, but assuming I wanted to add them back in, do you have any advice on how you would do it mechanically?



Yes, that was by design. While I have always had a bit of an issue with Save or Die spells, at least they are not as bad as automatic damage spells (i.e. Magic Missile?), especially when there is no chance of messing up in casting it..... I think that under the Attack Spell Base, I had intended to use the option, Optional Damage Type, for spells where you save against damage, or to include things other than hit damage, but I apparently never detailed that, and now cannot remember (though I am sure that I likely used it in one or 2 spells in the core rules).

For spells such as "Command Word: Die" where the target must make a Save or simple die, then you could use influence (and have it be a Con Save perhaps), but you are right that there are some potential spells that cannot normally be done using the Spell Bases....

So how about the following:

Attack II
The Spell Base, Attack II, is used to create other type of attack spells that require Saving Throws, usually versus Constitution, to avoid taking physical damage of one sort or another. When the spell is created, the type of damage is determined, and a spell may only include a single type of damage.

The base of the spell will do 1d10 points of damage to any target that fails its Saving Throw. Since spells created using this Spell base require Saving Throws, the damage that they deal will be unaffected by the Armor Rating of the target. The option, Per each Additional d10, allows the caster to increase the amount of damage done using such an attack. If a Duration greater than Instant/1 round is selected, the damage will happen every round for the duration of the spell.

The option, Target Unconscious, renders the target unconscious for 1 minute for each number that the Saving Throw is failed by. The option, Target in Coma, has a duration of 1 day for each number that the Saving Throw is failed by.

The section, Duration (until Effect), is used only for the option, Target Dies, to determine how long before the effect takes place. In such instances, the target would be allowed a Saving Throw each round before the effect takes place, but the TN of the Saving Throw would increase by 1 for each Saving Throw that is missed against a spell using this.

[b]Attack Options   [/b]
[b]Base Effects[/b]		[b]Codified[/b]	[b]Improv[/b]
	Does 1d10 damage	1	3
	Per each additional d10	2	4
	Target unconscious	5	8
	Target in Coma	9	12
	Target Dies	12	15
[b]Range[/b]
	Touch	0	2
	Up to 10 feet	1	3
	Up to 50 feet	2	5
	Per each additional 50 feet	3	4
[b]Duration[/b]
	Instant/1 round	0	0
	2 rounds	1	2
	3 rounds	2	4
	4 rounds	3	6
	5 rounds	4	8
	1 Minute	5	10
[b]Duration[/b] (until effect)
	6 rounds (1 Minute)	2	3
	5 rounds	3	4
	4 rounds	4	6
	3 rounds	5	8
	2 rounds	6	10
	Instant/1 round	7	12
[b]Other Options[/b]
	Single Target	0	0
	Area effect: Per 5 foot radius	3	5
	Per Additional 5' radius	1	3

[imported_Rasyr]

Basically, I do NOT want instant death spells to be "easy" spells. You SHOULD have to be an accomplished caster to throw those sorts of spells around...

[Dorchadas]

Hmm...so if I wanted to recreate the spell used in The People of the Black Circle...

Dark Grasp of Tsath-Kha
CTN: 29
Range: 50 feet
Vs: Con (Tn 17)
Duration: 2 rounds (countdown)
This horrific spell tears the target's heart out in a shower of viscera and gore. The sorcerer throws out their hand and intones the words of the spell, and the target feels a horrible wrenching sensation in their chest. If they pass either Save, then they merely suffer a -2 penalty for their actions the following round and then recover, but if they fail their Save, their heart thuds against their ribs before exploding out of their chest, flying through the air, and landing in the sorcerer's hand. The spell cannot affect any creature that doesn't have a heart, such as undead or golems, and also cannot affect demons, devils, or elementals.
Base: Attack II, Aid

CTN: 12 (base) + 7 (instant death) + 4 (takes two rounds) + 4 (broad penalty but under specific cirumstances) + 2 (range) = 29

That seems a bit low to me. Maybe the Effects should ramp up faster? 1, 2, 6 (unconscious), 12 (coma), 18 (instant death)?

[imported_Rasyr]

With a CTN of 29, that would mean that it requires 5 Spell Points to cast, which in turn means that the Save would have a TN of 19 (14 + 5 SP = 19)

As for the cost of the steps leading to death, I have no problems adjusting them as they might need to be adjusted through practice (afterall, that was basically mad up as I typed it up, so likely DOES need tweaking....  I would go with 5, 9 and 12 to start with..., and then increase the duration effects by 2 points across the board... (i.e. 6 rounds would be 2 points, 2 rounds would be 6 points, etc..)

I would also suggest that for such spells, that the target is Stunned, for the entire duration of the spell (until the death hits)....

So, with my suggestions, that would make the CTN be 36 (12 base + 12 death + 6 death in 2 rounds + 2 range of 50' + 4 special penalty if Save is made) which means 10 points to learn (for non-caster, 9 for minor adept, 8 for major), and require 7 spell points to cast, and the target would get a Save vs TN 21

[imported_Rasyr]

updated the Attact II  table

[Dorchadas]

So, with my suggestions, that would make the CTN be 36 (12 base + 12 death + 6 death in 2 rounds + 2 range of 50' + 4 special penalty if Save is made) which means 10 points to learn (for non-caster, 9 for minor adept, 8 for major), and require 7 spell points to cast, and the target would get a Save vs TN 21

That's more like what I was imagining it would be like. 

I would also suggest that for such spells, that the target is Stunned, for the entire duration of the spell (until the death hits)....

Hmm...for versimilitude, or is there another reason you had in mind?

[imported_Rasyr]

I would also suggest that for such spells, that the target is Stunned, for the entire duration of the spell (until the death hits)....

Hmm...for versimilitude, or is there another reason you had in mind?

Basically because their heart is trying to explode from their chest (or however such a spell describes) and that is likely to be causing massive amount of pain to the target, and pain == shock/stun.

For this spell, at least, I would say that the target is stunned for those 2 rounds until death. For another spell, depending upon the description, I might not (though the chance is unlikely, especially for shorter durations).

[Dorchadas]

Another thought that might fit the genre--turn spells into skills. Instead of having "Sorcery +5," the sorcerer would have "Spirit Trap +15" or "Dark Omen +7." It would make the game a bit more Runequest-like, with wizards tending to either focus on a few spells and gain mastery with them or learn many spells at a low level, I expect.

[imported_Rasyr]

oh.. that is an interesting option -- I actually used something along those lines back when I wrote HARP (for ICE), and that would/could give it a bit more of a Sword & Sorcery feel....

Treat Universal spells and spells from your School as Favored Skills, at least for Classic Mages (dual mages might do Favored cost+1 for all spells -- putting the cost between Favored and Standard), and Semis would do Favored+1 for their List Spells as well.

[Dorchadas]

The only problem I can see is that CTNs might interact oddly with it, because some spells would be nearly impossible to cast without getting a few ranks in the spell. Which would represent the added expertise needed to cast it, but then it ends up with some spells requiring multiple times the XP of the others to cast at all, and that just might lead to them being never used.

[imported_Rasyr]

Oh you will get that in every game, the "some spells are never used" bit. It depends on the utility of the spell in question.

And there is a reason for the spell creation rules in Libram Novus #1 -- a GM could actually rework all of the spells so that the lowest powered versions were more easily, and then include more scaling options from there...