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Offline Rasyr

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Novus Beta update thread
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2020, 03:11:56 PM »
Quote from: 17944
I can't wait to see the trimmed back version - v14 is a little overwhelming.

The trimmed back version is sitting at around 132 pages while the  v14 is weighing in a 251....

 

Offline witchking20k

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Novus Beta update thread
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2020, 07:47:57 PM »
Exactly LOL

Offline witchking20k

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Novus Beta update thread
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2020, 07:47:58 PM »
Exactly LOL

Offline kustenjaeger

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Novus Beta update thread
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2020, 04:24:00 AM »
I think the smaller number of combat skills with the specialisations strikes a balance between ease of play and crunchiness.

Where would the peasant flail sit - a basic flexible two handed implement normally used for threshing?

 

Edward

Offline Rasyr

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« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2020, 05:45:20 AM »
Quote from: 17948
Where would the peasant flail sit - a basic flexible two handed implement normally used for threshing? Edward

I would put it under Two Handed (Great Clubs)

Offline Rasyr

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Novus Beta update thread
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2020, 10:15:42 AM »
Quote from: 17939
  • Pole Arms -- 3 Specialties, Pole Arms, Spears, and Staves
         Pole Arms -- includes Bardiches, Bec de Corbins Glaives,                              Guisarmes, Halberds, lances, Military Forks, Ranseurs
         Spears -- includes javelins short spears, spears
         Staves -- includes bo staff, jo staff, quarterstaff
  • Two Handed -- 2 Specialties, Clubs and Blades
         Greatblades -- includes Bastard Swords, Great Swords,                                            Claymores, etc
         Great Clubs -- includes Battle Axes, Great Clubs, etc. and
    other large weapons (not covered under Pole Arms).

Why do I have these as 2 seperate skills?
I had been going nuts cause I did not like  lisint a skill as Pole Arms (Pole Arms) and eventually settled on Pole Weapons (Pole Arms)

And then this morning, as I am working through updating the Monster skill listing to the new skills, it JUST NOW hit me that Pole Arms should be under 2 Handed.... Doh!

Offline witchking20k

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Novus Beta update thread
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2020, 10:33:25 AM »
Yes!

Offline Rasyr

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Novus Beta update thread
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2020, 11:21:28 AM »
2 Handed skill now has 5 Specialties.

 

Offline witchking20k

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« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2020, 11:24:13 AM »
Cool- looking forward to being able to make some characters and see how it all balances out.

Offline Fidoric

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Novus Beta update thread
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2020, 02:49:54 PM »
Back in the days I thought fewer combat skills would be better... and I still do.
What about melee, unarmed, missiles and thrown ?
Do you think that would make too few skills to develop hence too many free CP for fighter types ?

As for the specialties I have not made my mind. I am sure there must be differences between weapons if only for balance reasons.
But some specialties are too superficial I think. For example, take a spear, cut off the blade and you have a perfect staff. I am pretty sure a skilled spearman will feel comfortable using that staff only lacking the ability to do piercing damages but otherwise still fully proficient with his former weapon haft.

Just a quick additional thought: why not use the complication system to emulate weapon similarities. This could make combat compatible with other skills. Say something like full skill in weapons you are familiar with, minor complications for similar weapons (same weapon group), major complication (or worse) for other weapons of the same category (melee or 1h or whatever categories you decide for). We may even mix this with the weapon training talents. (Weapon training 1 gives the previous modifiers, weapon training 2 gives -5/-8 and no weapon trading talent give all non familiar weapons -8)

Offline Rasyr

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Novus Beta update thread
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2020, 03:42:01 PM »
While I do agree that there may still be some tweaking needed (your comments about the Spear and quarterstaff make an excellent point an will likely result a couple weapons from Spears heading to Staves and the rest going to Pole Arms (length and how they are used issues).

Right now, the main skills are:

Archery (weapon powered missiles)

Blades (slash & stab type weapons)

Bludgeoning (clubs and chains (i.e. morningstars, flails, nunchaku, etc))

Martial Arts (unarmed)

2 Handed (gotta use both hands)

Thrown (the weapons itself is the missile)

six skills total and there are currently 20 Specialties spread among those, but your suggestion above will reduce that to 19.

I think that much less than that would make things to homogenous overall.

As for using Complications, that can be too powerful if used against skills wtih low ranks, but much less powerful for skills with many ranks.

right now, things in another Specialty from one you have are at -5 top the skill, but I am considering changing it to 1/5 (i.e. +1 for every 5 ranks in the main skill)

 

Offline witchking20k

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Novus Beta update thread
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2020, 03:50:46 PM »
I think the current version would simulate what you are saying pretty well Fidoric. But, I tend to agree with you, the basics of all melee fighting skills are the same: if you we teaching them you'd talk about space, balance, and positioning until the student understood the basics. When we compare this to the "crafting scale" from that type of skill that would basically be ranks 1-5. Sweeping floors and carrying tools.

I think what Fidoric & I circle back to is that: I get that there is a difference in the expertise between wielding a Sword and a Mace, but I can't believe there is a difference in the basics. ie. balance, footwork, spacing, etc.

Now, to be clear, I'm not necessarily saying to re-write or anything. I'm just kind of noting that it's something that makes sense. Most of the other skills in Novus are generalizations except Weapons/Combat skills. Magecraft explicitly gives you access to several very different skill uses at no penalty. I think we could assume it's because these are the fundamentals of becoming a mage. The only specializations are a collection of Lores & crafts associated with magery (potions, summoning etc).

I believe this approach to be more balanced with the rest of the Novus skills.

For comparison with other systems

In D&D 5E (which for good or ill should be the #1 comparable) you are proficient or you are not. I'd have to check, but, I don't think there is a penalty for not having proficiency I think you just don't get the bonus. So, if I am proficient with Martial Weapons I am automatically proficient with Common Weapons. But, if you are proficient with Common weapons, you are not proficient with Marital Weapons. I think this separation makes sense because your proficiency is reflective of a broad class of weapons you are trained in, not a singular stream. You can use a Common Weapon (dagger, club, short sword, scimitar) with your proficiency bonus, but a Martial Weapon (long sword, flail) you do not get the bonus.

Cortex System uses d2-d12 to represent skill expertise (being a mixed dice game and very good BTW). Many skills are developed as a general skill from a d2 to d6 then as a specialization from d8-d12. This makes a lot of sense because things like Athletics or Influence can be applied generally up to a d6 and then specialized into climbing or duping etc at the d8 level. Weapon skills are treated the same way.

I like this and as cumbersome as it is to develop a single skill to say rank 5 then specialize it afterwards it makes more sense than developing several skills all to rank 5 because 1 is a hilt with a 1 foot blade and another is a handle with an axe head.

I use rank 5 as the benchmark because an average starting "warrior" will likely have at least rank 5 in their weapon skill. So, that means they could use any melee or missile weapon to rank 5, but, if they bought 2 ranks in Morning Star they would be able to use it at rank 7.

One of the things I want to see when v15 is ready is how far the CPs go and what advancement is going to look like. It might not fit in to the flow of the game to have to develop multiple weapon skills. Players would be so busy dumping CPs into various weapons that they would be forced to ignore other skills. Whereas if there is a single melee skill they spend once and move on to other areas.

Hence why although I have had a lot of observations about combat skills I've been trying (no not so well) to wait until v15 is out!

LOL

That's it for now - hope its not too much

Offline Rasyr

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Novus Beta update thread
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2020, 04:25:32 PM »
Hmm...

We could leave the Specialty system in place.

We also already have a modifier to DT that is equal to +1 per every 5 ranks in best melee skill.

What we could do is take that same modifer, and that be the base Combat bonus for ANY type of combat skill where you do not have any ranks.

And we also have the universal combat actions that apply to all weapons as well.

That may help resolve this sort of issue.

 

Offline witchking20k

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« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2020, 04:39:08 PM »
I dunno - i hate to critique too much until I see v15. But, I've played a lot of Hero System for example, and one of the challenges in GMing is that "improvement" without levels is basically alternating between spending CPs on CSLs and Spells. I'd like to see how it all hangs together

Offline Rasyr

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Novus Beta update thread
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2020, 12:18:41 PM »
Left to do:
  • Review/update the Running Novus chapter
  • Add in combat boons to the list of Fate Point Boons.
  • Work everything into the PDFs