Combat Example Questions

[Rasyr]

Ok, I am going to start working on a combat example this week, and I figure that I would ask for some input...

I figure 4 PC type against 4 Kobolds.

So the first question is which PC -- I figure I will use four of the 12 I made for the quickstart.

Next up is the setting of the combat - I figure an underground chamber of some sort, so I don't have to deal with ambush and detecting the foes (I will cover surprise though since that is a possibility -- especially if they are entering the chamber from 2 different directions at the same time)

Any other ideas or comments about what you think it should contain?

[Falcon]

those ones could be a good combination, imho:

- Talyn (Range Combat)

- Myddan (because of the Arc spell, which I find described a bit convoluted)

- Viklin (because of the basic throwing and kicking unarmed attacks - also an easy example for a self-buff spell )

- Patches (standard sword& shield, I  suggest actually giving him a shield in the equipment list, didn't find one)

An underground chamber with defined borders is a good idea. Differing lighting conditions and partial covers (pillars, sarcophagus) maybe a wet/slippery surface on the ground in one area would be a varied setup.


I understand the mechanism of the Moves in general, I guess, besides some very specific questions (nothing that could be adressed by an example). But what I find exceptionally hard to grasp is the general flow of combat. For example, Defense Moves like block are resolved first, so before the actual attack that they try to prevent. I don't know if thats intentionally and an example would give clarification.

Also there seem to be myriad of combat move combinations (which is a good thing) but this can get complicaed. Fight Defensively +  All Out Attack seems weird at first glance but should be a completely legal action (but I can see many fellows who would argue against it, so a good combat example).

Also as I understand as a GM I have to track around 9 dynamic numbers (Hits, 3 Wounds, 3 Stuns, Bleed, Ini) which change on a constant basis while remembering the previous announced actions over the entire course of the round, all that times the number of NPC.
At the moment I don't know how to handle all this (maybe there is a quick notation, a combat tracking chart or something).

[Rasyr]

those ones could be a good combination, imho:

- Talyn (Range Combat)

- Myddan (because of the Arc spell, which I find described a bit convoluted)

- Viklin (because of the basic throwing and kicking unarmed attacks - also an easy example for a self-buff spell )

- Patches (standard sword& shield, I  suggest actually giving him a shield in the equipment list, didn't find one)

An underground chamber with defined borders is a good idea. Differing lighting conditions and partial covers (pillars, sarcophagus) maybe a wet/slippery surface on the ground in one area would be a varied setup.

I almost have the Combat example done at this point. I wanted to keep it simple. And thus I am just showing basic combat as it were. I was only meaning it to give the basics of melee combat.

I understand the mechanism of the Moves in general, I guess, besides some very specific questions (nothing that could be adressed by an example). But what I find exceptionally hard to grasp is the general flow of combat. For example, Defense Moves like block are resolved first, so before the actual attack that they try to prevent. I don't know if thats intentionally and an example would give clarification.

Defensive Actions resolving first -- this is done so that the one doing the defending action gets the benefits of said action (I have seen GMs tell players (even after acknowledging that all actions are basically happening simultaneously) that their defensive action does not count sine they go after the incoming attack).

Defensive Moves are those Moves which ONLY increase the Defense (i.e. Fighting Defensively would NOT be considered a Defensive Move, so would NOT resolve first, BUT the botnu to DT applies at the time of action declaration since the player/GM needs to declare what the split is at that point.

Also there seem to be myriad of combat move combinations (which is a good thing) but this can get complicaed. Fight Defensively +  All Out Attack seems weird at first glance but should be a completely legal action (but I can see many fellows who would argue against it, so a good combat example).

Not Complicated. You can only do 1 Combat Move per attack. You cannot combine Combat Moves. If you get multiple attacks, you can use different Combat Moves on each attack, but since each attack is resolved separately, that would not change things.

Having said that, the idea of Fighting Defensively on one attack and All Out Attack on the other does sound interesting, BUT since they are diametrically opposed actions, I would likely require a successful WIll roll after the first one (whichever that is), to see if the character can swith gears enough for the second (failure meaning that they use the same Combat Move as used on the first attack on the second as well). BUt that is only for opposing actions. Actions that are similar in intent (i.e. both offense or both defense) would not need a roll at all.

Also as I understand as a GM I have to track around 9 dynamic numbers (Hits, 3 Wounds, 3 Stuns, Bleed, Ini) which change on a constant basis while remembering the previous announced actions over the entire course of the round, all that times the number of NPC.
At the moment I don't know how to handle all this (maybe there is a quick notation, a combat tracking chart or something).

Good Idea!! I put little tracking boxes on the Pregens, but I could easily make up a tracking sheet for GMs to use.

I would say, not more than 20 rows overall - should be sufficient for both PCs and Creatures -- Let's see what I can come up with...

[Falcon]

A simple fight should be enough to get the gist of the combat, imho.
the handlin of defensive actions makes sense now. Incorporating a defensive move into the combat seems to be a good idea, though.

Not Complicated. You can only do 1 Combat Move per attack. You cannot combine Combat Moves.

Ok, so now I'm totally confused on the notation, respectively difference of, for example "AP: 3" and AP: +3". But to not derail the thread, I'll wait for the combat example

[Rasyr]

Not Complicated. You can only do 1 Combat Move per attack. You cannot combine Combat Moves.

Ok, so now I'm totally confused on the notation, respectively difference of, for example "AP: 3" and AP: +3". But to not derail the thread, I'll wait for the combat example

Oh, that is because the Combat Moves are based on the Basic Attacks, which can vary the amount of Action Points (AP) required for them, while other COmbat Moves are specific to themselves (regardless of the underlying weapon size.

For example

Tiny/Small Weapons -- require 2 AP to make a Basic Attack
Medium/Large Weapons -- require 3 AP to make a Basic Attack
Huge Weapons -- require 4 AP to make a Basic Attack

Say you want to do a Feint -- it has a an AP of +1

This means if you were using a Dagger, the AP would be 3
If you were using a Broadsword, the AP would be 4
If you were using  a Glaive, the AP for a Feint would be 5


So, those without an AP at all would use the Basic Attack AP for the weapon being used (i.e. Probe, I am looking at you...)

And Martial Arts - all attacks are 2 AP, unless it says otherwise. Kick is 3 AP, and RoundHouse Kick says +1 since it is based on the Kick, (as opposed to 2 AP + 1).

I could have likely been more consistent throughout.

[Falcon]

Ok that's exactly what I meant with a combat move combination, so this was just a misunderstanding.

[Falcon]

I wanted to use some of the characters from the combat example for a test adventure. But while I was typing in numbers to Roll20 I recognized the character's DT counts seem to be too high and now I try to figure out how they come to be.

for example Patches (Dwarf) has
DT: 21
vs.
DT (10) + Reflexes (6) + normal shield (3) + shield training (+1) - Armor (0 because natural with armor) = 20 DT

This seems to be the case with many other characters also, oftentimes it's 1 or 2 points more than I can find (for example Argorn).

At first I thought this could be the NPB but this only applys to combat skills the character doesn't have ranks in. Also it's not the Size bonus to DT.

[Fidoric]

NPB applies to your DT to. This is to reflect that general training in combat enhances your defensive abilities whether armed or not through footwork, dodge moves…

This may explain the difference regarding Patch. I don’t have his character sheet at hand to check.

[Falcon]

mmh, the glossary indeed says:

Non-Proficiency Bonus (NPB) – This is a modifer to the DT and a few other things. It is based on the character’s best melee skill bonus.

in contrast on p.22 (Skills)

... there is also a modifier that is used for both the character’s DT and for using any Combat Skill for which the character does not have any ranks. This is called the Non-Proficiency Bonus..

Which, now that I read it in a certain light actually means two separate things! As the name Non-Proficiency implies I already associated it with combat skills without rank.

So, the Non-Proficiency Bonus also applies when fighting proficient. I dare to say that's misleading. But thanks very much.

[Rasyr]

You forgot their NPB ...

10 (base)
+ 6 (Reflexes)
+ 3 (Normal Shield)
+ 1 (Shield Training)
+ 1 (NPB )
---------------
21

The NPB applies to Combat skills where you have no ranks, and to DT (all the time). It is never applied to Combat skills where you already have ranks

[bucephalos]

Hi, I really love the way that Novus 2e has come together, so much so that I ordered one of everything  .   I hope to run it for my group soon!  To that end, I am studying the rules, like you do, and I got a bit confused after reading the Combat Example vs the combat chapter in the main book.

There seems to be a discrepancy in the way Scaled Damage is calculated in the Combat Example and the rule book. 

from Novus 2e pg. 52:

Scaled Damage - For every point above the target's DT that the attack roll is, the attacker gets to add 1 additional point of damage to the total amount dealt. However, Scaled Damage cannot exceed an amount equal to twice the Base Damage (BD) of the weapon or attack being used.

Example: A Mace has a DR of6*. So, if our
character has a Strength of 3, that means that the Mace has a Base Damage of 9, and that the amount of Scaled Damage possible is 18. This actually gives the weapon an effective damage range of 9 to 27 (9+18=27) points, before adjusting for the foe's Armor Rating.

in the combat example, pg 6, round 1 phase 3:

Patches: Patches stabs at Groutok and he rolls a natural 20. This is  called a Super Nova Roll. Patches earns 5 Fate Points from this,  and the roll is treated as if he rolled a 40, adding in his 8 AB gives us a total of 48 for the attack. This is 27 points higher Groutok's DT of 21. Now, the Broadsword that Patches is using does 10
Hits, which means that he will do a maximum of another 10 Hits of Scaled Damage, for 20 Hits total. After we subtract 4 Hits from Groutok's AR, that gives us a total of 16 Hits.

(italics added)

It seems that the maximum damage in the example is Scaled Damage_max  is equal to the Base Damage, giving a possible damage range of BD to 2×BD. but in the rulebook it shows that Scaled Damage_max  is twice the BD, giving a damage range of BD to 3×BD.

It's entirely possible that I missed something about how Super Nova rolls work, but I didn't see anything that made me think it shouldn't count as 40 when doing the scaled damage calculation.  But it seems like even if that is an exception, it would yield 7 points of SD in the example (20_roll+8_AB-21_DT=7_SD), not 10, and it still doesn't clarify the intent on maximum SD.

Which one is correct, or am I just misunderstanding something?

[Rasyr]

The Answer is simple........

I messed up in the Combat Example.. it should have done 30 points of damage, not 20......

Blame it on late night writing at the time... ROFL...
 

[Rasyr]

Ok, I have corrected the error in the Combat Example and uploaded an updated version.

[bucephalos]

sweet, thank you!