RM Revision

[witchking20k]

I can honestly say I don't know. I stopped following and probably will not even bother with the new version of RM.

[Fidoric]

Can't say for sure but the available products are rather good-looking.
My concern is: after reading through them a few weeks ago, I got the distinct feeling of reading... RM. I was hoping for interesting twists or even new takes on things but was sorely disappointed. Many people have spent a lot of time and energy on this but I find it more of a RM classic revamped than a true new iteration of RM.

[Rasyr]

So they went from the first beta (which was even MORE complicated) to something more along the line of what I had been doing?

and it only took them 10 years so far.......

[Fidoric]

I think that's what you get when too many people have their hands on the steering wheel or you go for two irreconcilable or perceived as such goals (RM2 / RMSS).
RM express was probably a good move back then but my take on this is that the future of RM was... HARP! Same basic mechanics, simple and efficient rules, lots of room for adding details and depth.

[witchking20k]

The future of RM relies on a setting not a system IMO. Successful games in today's market can be played as a universal system but are usually written into a setting. Doing this writes the strengths and weaknesses of the system into the setting. If RMX was presented in a Conan-esque or Black Company style setting  the low-magic/highly fatal combat balance would have sense and essentially attracted the type of player that wants that experience. The problem will always be that a D&Der will try RM expecting a similar experience. ICE should manage that expectation better IMO. Easiest way to do it: write a setting specific to the system and then let the needs of the setting guide your revision. Oh, and the end result for ICE - a product with IP that you can protect.

[Rasyr]

OK, so twelve years in and apparently the revision is still not done...

In fact, I just spent a few minutes looking through the second beta, and where are the attack and critical tables?

They seem to be missing (I won't go  into how amateurish the PDF looks, not on these forums (will give it a deeper review on my personal site at some point).

[witchking20k]

I've given up on RMU. I can adapt MERP & RMX to anything that I want at this point, so, why bother with RMU? That is the divide that began with RM vs. RMSS/RMFRP. It will only be a wider gap if/when RMU is completed. IMO the resources allocated to RMU should have been used to create small adventures and support products for RM/RMFRP and expand the market for HARP.

[Rasyr]

even if there is no funds for expanding the market, there is no official presence anyplace BUT the ICE forums....

That is no way to expand the brand. At least when I worked for ICE,  I had and kept a presence on other forums to help expand the brand.

[witchking20k]

I think anyone who was interested in expanding the brand hitched their wagon to Against the Darkmaster. LOL

[Rasyr]

I think anyone who was interested in expanding the brand hitched their wagon to Against the Darkmaster. LOL

Which is definitely 1 million times better than that monstrosity called RMU....

[witchking20k]

I think the more I play, the more I appreciate MERP and RMX. The streamlined presentation of the rules, re-playability, and approachability of these rulesets made them great stand alone games. I've said before: if RMX would have included a Ranger & Mentalist rather than an Animist plus used the ATs 5/13/17 as the base ATs for armor.it would have been a nearly perfect introduction to RM.

[Rasyr]

Ranger and Mentalist were given in the Express Additions. And it used MERP-like combat tables.

The RM Revision that I was working on had similar tables with an extra column of armor on it.

I had to dig it out to see.. I also dug out my RM Cyradon PDF  file as well.

[witchking20k]

Yah- I was a part of those too. That RM revision was shaping up pretty well IMO. The armor & spell casting being more "heroic" were big appeals to me.

[markc]

I did not read all of the posts above but just the last page.
In general I am in agreement with what has been said and can offer the following perspective.

1) I do not know what is in RMU JDE (Jay Dale Edition) except for the basics.
2) IMHO they changed and replaced things in what they thought would make it simpler but just made them different or more complex. Often I thought they just changed it because the could.
3) The combat charts and crit charts from RMU B1 were an abomination to what I enjoy in RM and most of the people I know play RM for. In general they play RM for detail and the ability more accurately represent some facet of their game and or game world.
4) In the RMU B books that I read they often tried to make the math easier but then confused things on the word side. ie, they explained things in 3 paragraphs instead of 1 and said things in the text that did not play out in the math or the rules.

In general I know people who like HARP but even that products direction has begun to turn people off but I do not know anything about new newest HARP revamp and do think some of them will buy the core book to see what if any changes are made and how they like it.

In general I think the more good RP products on the market make the industry better and even can expand to other areas such as books, movies and TV and I hope they can produce a product that more people like then dislike.
MDC

[Rasyr]

RMU JDE? Is that the second Beta version? The one without any combat tables?

And yes, IMO the revision went the completely wrong direction.

I was of the opinion that the revision should have been more like RMX starting out, then have an optional skill system which expanded it out to  be RMSS-like, that way it would help unite the two fan bases, and if the expanded skill system had an eash conversion system, it would have allowed for releasing only one set of stats since xx skill == yy ranks in skills a, b, and c (or whatever).

but... that idea was deliberatley sabotaged behind the scenes by the 2 people who are currently running things over there (they deliberately sabotaged a number of things that we had been working on...

While I still love (old RM), I won't ever purchase any of the stuff now being released....

What a number of folks over there on the forums back then did not realize is that I have no to little control over what we did, and had to fight for everything and anything I wanted to do, AND I was required to present a specific front to the world, even when I didn't want to.... (when working for Mjolnir).

Heck, a lot of times I ended up taking the blame (from customers) for decisions that I had no part in making cause I was the face on the forums.......