Initial Novus Open Beta version 0.6 feedback

[imported_Rasyr]

This thread is for folks to come on by and let me know what they think of Novus. Did you like it? Did you hate it? Are there parts that you wish were different?

All constructive feedback is welcome.

[BossMorgrum]

I ran a few combats with the 0.6 rule set this past Sunday, and I think this system has some good core ideas (additional damage from exceeding Defense is a personal favorite.) However, there are a few points that I don't understand.

1) Do Impedance points from armor stack? I.e, wearing soft leather torso/arm/leg/head armor, do you pay 1 extra SP or 4 extra SP?

2) All the monsters' DEF values seem very low. My players managed to build first level characters with +16 to-hit (2[Fighter Combat Skill bonus]+3[Subterranean Combat Skill ranks bonus]+5[Ranks in Combat Skill] +2[Natural Talent bonus) +1[Weapon Focus] +3[Str modifier]) Rereading the rules, I could argue that the Background Skill ranks can't exceed the 5 ranks/level limit, but that's still +13 against monsters with ~17 Def at first level. At second, it goes to +18 (5 more Favored Combat Skill ranks). 

3) High DEF seems to be worth a lot more than high armor, so plate armor looks like a very disadvantageous choice. Higher DEF means you get hit less (taking less damage by avoiding hits altogether) and higher DEF means that monsters need to roll higher to get Boons to deal you extra damage.

Maybe there are some parts of the rules I missed?

[imported_Rasyr]

I ran a few combats with the 0.6 rule set this past Sunday, and I think this system has some good core ideas (additional damage from exceeding Defense is a personal favorite.) However, there are a few points that I don't understand.

First off, welcome to the forums, and thanks for giving Novus a spin.

1) Do Impedance points from armor stack? I.e, wearing soft leather torso/arm/leg/head armor, do you pay 1 extra SP or 4 extra SP?

Yes, they do stack. I will make a note that I need to make this clearer in the next version.

2) All the monsters' DEF values seem very low. My players managed to build first level characters with +16 to-hit (2[Fighter Combat Skill bonus]+3[Subterranean Combat Skill ranks bonus]+5[Ranks in Combat Skill] +2[Natural Talent bonus) +1[Weapon Focus] +3[Str modifier]) Rereading the rules, I could argue that the Background Skill ranks can't exceed the 5 ranks/level limit, but that's still +13 against monsters with ~17 Def at first level. At second, it goes to +18 (5 more Favored Combat Skill ranks). 

Wow! Looks like your players min-maxed the hell out of things. That they were attempting to build the best combat monsters that they could.

I may have to look into putting some more controls/breaks on what sort of Talents can be purchased or on how bonuses from multiple talents can stack... Perhaps not allow magic skills (Magecraft & Spellcasting) and Combat Skills to be selected for Natural Talent. And perhaps make it so that Background ranks do count against the limit of 5 per level. Will definitely have to give it some thought...

Anyways, they really did do their best to get the highest possible  Attack Bonus that they could. I would presume that they have little to no skill ranks in most other skills.

Query -- how many CP did they pay for their skill ranks? The first two ranks should have cost 1 CP each, while the other 3 should have cost 2 CP each, for a total 8 CP. Plus they spent 8 CP on those two talents (Natural Talent (5 CP) and Weapon Focus (3 CP). The only left them 14 CP for development of other skills/talents. Remember, they only get 30 to start with.

Query -- what race are the characters? Did they choose dwarves? or come up with a back story that explains their background?

Most characters will NOT have Attack Bonuses that high. And the DEF of the monsters IS figured in the same manner as that of the players. (base + stat + profession (all treated as Rogues) + any specials)

3) High DEF seems to be worth a lot more than high armor, so plate armor looks like a very disadvantageous choice. Higher DEF means you get hit less (taking less damage by avoiding hits altogether) and higher DEF means that monsters need to roll higher to get Boons to deal you extra damage.

And characters may easily increase their DEF by Fighting Defensively (reduce attack bonus to increase DEF). And yes, NOT getting hit is often much much better than getting hit and let armor absorb the damage

Maybe there are some parts of the rules I missed?

I don't think so. But let me point out that I really really DO appreciate this feedback, as that is part of the whole reason of having an Open Beta - to find and try and resolve potential issues BEFORE the book is finalized!

So, thanks again.. and I look forward to more feedback from you...

[BossMorgrum]

Wow! Looks like your players min-maxed the hell out of things. That they were attempting to build the best combat monsters that they could.

Yes, they were. My players generally min/max as hard as they can. Granted, I was running sample combats to see how the combat system works, so they had very little reason to build for anything else. Still, if I was running a campaign I'm certain at least one of them would build this same character. 

I may have to look into putting some more controls/breaks on what sort of Talents can be purchased or on how bonuses from multiple talents can stack... Perhaps not allow magic skills (Magecraft & Spellcasting) and Combat Skills to be selected for Natural Talent. And perhaps make it so that Background ranks do count against the limit of 5 per level. Will definitely have to give it some thought...

I think having the Background ranks count as regular ranks for the purposes of the cap would help. It would delay getting the ranks up to the stat cap by a few levels. Natural Talent looks like a bit of a problem. If it doesn't work with Magecraft, Spellcasting, and Combat Skills it becomes much less attractive (since it looks like almost every character will want to use one or two of those skills). If it does work, it is so attractive that it's almost an automatic choice (since it gives a bonus that always applies to a skill most players will want, for a moderate cost).

You might consider not having the bonus from Natural Talent stack with the bonus from Combat Training, but I don't know if you want to get into "bonus types."
 

Query -- how many CP did they pay for their skill ranks? The first two ranks should have cost 1 CP each, while the other 3 should have cost 2 CP each, for a total 8 CP. Plus they spent 8 CP on those two talents (Natural Talent (5 CP) and Weapon Focus (3 CP). The only left them 14 CP for development of other skills/talents. Remember, they only get 30 to start with.

The Skill Costs Chart on page 19 seems to indicate that Favored skills cost 1/1 for the first five ranks, so they paid 5 for the ranks, and 8 for the talents, for a total of 13 CP. If I misread that chart, that might be a significant part of the problem.

Query -- what race are the characters? Did they choose dwarves? or come up with a back story that explains their background?

A human and a half-elf, if I recall correctly. Again, I was just testing out the combat rules, so I didn't ask for (or expect) any kind of background.

Most characters will NOT have Attack Bonuses that high. And the DEF of the monsters IS figured in the same manner as that of the players. (base + stat + profession (all treated as Rogues) + any specials)

I think I missed that part. Where does this Profession bonus come from?

But let me point out that I really really DO appreciate this feedback, as that is part of the whole reason of having an Open Beta - to find and try and resolve potential issues BEFORE the book is finalized!

So, thanks again.. and I look forward to more feedback from you...

Glad to help. I'm looking for a substitute for 3.5 DnD to run some Planescape in ( I dislike 4th Ed DnD, and Pathfinder is just 3.5 with a different colored shirt). So, I'll keep testing things and (hopefully) generate some useful feedback for you.

[imported_Rasyr]

I think having the Background ranks count as regular ranks for the purposes of the cap would help. It would delay getting the ranks up to the stat cap by a few levels. Natural Talent looks like a bit of a problem. If it doesn't work with Magecraft, Spellcasting, and Combat Skills it becomes much less attractive (since it looks like almost every character will want to use one or two of those skills). If it does work, it is so attractive that it's almost an automatic choice (since it gives a bonus that always applies to a skill most players will want, for a moderate cost).

You might consider not having the bonus from Natural Talent stack with the bonus from Combat Training, but I don't know if you want to get into "bonus types."

I think that the simplest solution would be to not allow Magic/Combat skills for Natural Talent. That Talent was added more for the Minstrel and Thief Classes anyways, to give them a boost in their skill are of choice.

I don't want to get into too many bonus types either...

 

Query -- how many CP did they pay for their skill ranks? The first two ranks should have cost 1 CP each, while the other 3 should have cost 2 CP each, for a total 8 CP. Plus they spent 8 CP on those two talents (Natural Talent (5 CP) and Weapon Focus (3 CP). The only left them 14 CP for development of other skills/talents. Remember, they only get 30 to start with.

The Skill Costs Chart on page 19 seems to indicate that Favored skills cost 1/1 for the first five ranks, so they paid 5 for the ranks, and 8 for the talents, for a total of 13 CP. If I misread that chart, that might be a significant part of the problem.

There is a note under that table/chart. It specifically says that ranks from Backgrounds count towards determining the cost of the next rank. So getting 3 ranks from Background means that only the first 2 ranks would be at that first cost, with the next five being at the second cost, and so forth...

Most characters will NOT have Attack Bonuses that high. And the DEF of the monsters IS figured in the same manner as that of the players. (base + stat + profession (all treated as Rogues) + any specials)

I think I missed that part. Where does this Profession bonus come from?

Okay, first off, I should have said Class, not profession (that is my Rolemaster background leaking through slightly - it does that occassionally).

In creating the monsters, I treated them as Rogues. They get the Class bonuses from the Rogue Class. However, in double checking, it does appear that all of the monsters ARE missing their Class bonus to DEF (a +1).

In building them, I have also basically restricted myself to purchasing no more than 1 rank per level in Combat Skills for them (it kept it simpler). But I may change that to 2 ranks per level (up to their Stat value, then one rank per level afterwards (plus they get 2 ranks from their Backgrounds as well)). This should raise some DEFs slightly as well.

I have a spreadsheet with all of this stuff in it. I did not explain, in the rules about how they were made (though I have done so here on the forums once or twice).