Renaming the Rogue?

[imported_Rasyr]

One of our new members asked if Rogue might be the correct name for the Class currently being called Rogue.

In games I played in the past, Rogue has been both something of a type of Thiefly character in some games while being a bit of a jack of all trades in others.

In Novus, however, the Rogue is more of non-magic Ranger in the same way that the Minstrel is a non-magic type of Bard. And I find myself agreeing that perhaps Rogue isn't the best name for that Class, but I am not so sure that Scout (his suggestion) is right either (it is a good enough name, but is it the perfect name?)

So, what I would like is for folks to come to the forums and take part in the poll that this thread is part of.

I would really appreaciate it -- Thanks!!!

[efiscrow]

It really depends upon what you want the class to represent and do. If this class is the non-magic ranger, then scout would suffice. However, what you're then looking at is an explosion of new classes. After all, where then is your thief, your thug, your infiltrator, your 'Rogue'? After all if you take the magic and higher calling out of Aragorn, then what are you left with? He would be just like all your generic rogues that hang out in the Inn waiting for an opportunity, something to steal, someone to con, or someone willing to pay them for their specialist skills.

- EfisCrow (Chris)

[brianbloom]

So, I impulsively voted for keeping it as "rogue" before I began to think about it some more.

I also noticed that the game Rift has a "calling" for Rogue (one of 4, the others being Warrior/Cleric/Mage), and under this they have several classes including 'Ranger', 'Assassin', 'Bard', etc.  So by that reasoning, 'Rogue' would work well here in Novus, since you already have 'Archer' as its own fighting-oriented class.

I think the way is made even more clear for the broad Rogue you intend if we actually consider renaming the Fighter instead to be something like "Warrior".  That would let the Rogue expand a bit to fill all the "rough and tumble but scrappy" type characters that might otherise bleed into "Fighters".  That feels like a nice 4-way split between Warriors/Archers/Rogues/Thieves as having the armed spectrum well covered.  That also helps minimize the question of "wait, isn't an Archer a 'fighter'?" since few people would liken "warriors" (strength, valor, physicalness) with "archers" (nimble, lethal at a distance, strike and flee, etc)

If not keeping it as "Rogue" I wonder why we wouldn't just use the name "Ranger" then, especially if you want to keep it as "wilderness" centric as its opening paragraph makes it.

[imported_Rasyr]

If not keeping it as "Rogue" I wonder why we wouldn't just use the name "Ranger" then, especially if you want to keep it as "wilderness" centric as its opening paragraph makes it.

For the same reason that the minstrel isn't called the Bard -- because there WILL be magic using variants of those semi adept classes in the future (quite possibly the next issue of LN)


PS: have changed the poll to allow for changing your vote....

[imported_Rasyr]

Just had another thought.....

What is your opinion of perhaps renaming some of the classes like so:

Fighter/Warrior
Rogue/Scout
Scoundrel/Thief

(note: I would really reall prefer NOT to have to re-arrange any of the classes in the book (having both spell users on the same page is good and I would rather keep it that way)

[Fidoric]

I have voted for Scout, but Rogue may remain a good option. It's is adequate and doesn't require any pagemaking.
I may lack the necessary English proficiency to fully discuss this point though.

[imported_Rasyr]

Well, so long as I don't have to move a class to a new page, I am good.

[brianbloom]

For the same reason that the minstrel isn't called the Bard -- because there WILL be magic using variants of those semi adept classes in the future (quite possibly the next issue of LN)

I would personally prefer that the non-magic using wilderness character get the name "ranger" and the eventual magical one get something different (like a "wildsmaster", "explorer", etc).  I guess I never associated "Rangers" with magic...

[mattiyaho]

I voted scout only because tim said that the ranger would be a magic user but i think ranger would be the best name for the rogue

[imported_Rasyr]

You guys might not associate Rangers with magic users, but many of the target audience do (i.e. D&D (various versions) have magic using Rangers), plus other games I worked on in the past (Rolemaster/HARP) have magic using Rangers as well, so to me, Rangers use magic...

And most definitely, thanks for all of the input.... Without it, Novus would be nowhere near as good as it is now!!

[Greyaxe]

I voted outrider/out lander. It reminds me of a person who lives outside of cities not simply a scout but a nomad or vagabond type class.

[imported_Rasyr]

I decided to go with Scout, but I added that sometimes scouts turn to criminal activities and are called highwaymen and rogues...