Skill Example Suggestions

[imported_Rasyr]

In another thread (possibly in multiple threads, considering that I may not have recognized such requests previously -- sometimes I CAN be a little dense), it has been mentioned doing some detailed examples for the skills, and certain ways that they may be used might be a good idea. And I can (at least now heheh) actually see and agree to that.

So, for this thread I would to see suggestions posted here, in this thread

For example, in another thread we have this:

A detailed skill use break-down would be great.  Examples: how to use Acrobatics to balance, roll, squirm free of shackles etc.  This was one of the aspects I truly appreciated about the 4E presentation of skills- there were detailed example that covered most of the "situational" uses of skills

So, for this thread, I would prefer it be posted something along the lines of

Acrobatics

• Balance
• Squirm free of shackles
• Roll (though this specific suggestion might need a bit more detail..) 

[Trentin Bergeron]

My initial suggestions;

Athletics

• Climbing
• Swimming
• Diving (holding breath)
• Lifting
• Running
• Sprinting
• Jumping
• Hiking
• Marching
• ThrowingCatching

Gimmickry
[/list]

• Disarm Traps
• Set Traps
• Pick Locks
• Create Locks?
• Repair?
• CreateRepair Clockwork items?
• CreateRepair Door HingesLatches?
• CreateRepair Music Boxes?
• CreateRepair Toys?

Influence
[/list]

• Diplomacy
• Haggling
• Duping
• Bribing
• Seduction!
• What would Interrogation fall under? Torture? (I don't recommend the later for heroic PCs but...)
• Just making friendsalliescontacts

Lore

I have a whole variant idea for this...

Navigation
[/list]

• Sea variablesparticulars
• Land variablesparticulars
• Weather variablesparticulars
• Astronomical variablesparticulars
• Maps variablesparticulars
• Special variablesparticulars(moss covered trees, magnetic magic plants, will o' wisps...)

Perception
[/list]

• Sight based variables
• Sound based variables
• Touch based variables
• SmellTaste based variables
• Notice hidden objects
• Notice hidden passagesdoors
• Notice traps

Performing Arts
 
I have a similar idea as to Lore...

Streetwise
[/list]

• Making Contacts
• Gathering Information
• Finding People
• Finding the Black Market
• Decipher Marks
• Decipher Slang
• Knowing the rules

Survival
[/list]

• Fishing
• Hunting
• ForagingGathering
• Find Potable Water
• Difficulties based on environment
• Find Shelter
• Build Shelter
• Starting a fire
• Mask scent
• Repel vermin

Tracking
[/list]

• Terrain based variablesparticulars
• Quarry based variablesparticulars
• Time based variablesparticulars
• Weather based variablesparticulars

Trickery
[/list]

• Sleight of Hand (difficulty based on size, or factors of items)
• Tricks
• Picking Pockets
• Planting Objects
• Misdirection (can it be used in combat?)

[/list]

[Trentin Bergeron]

I think there should be a "universal table" for roll modifiers based on a myriad of different conditions. There would be a severity 1 - 10 with a coresponding penalty/bonus. here's a quick mock up;



There would be examples of severity. You could increase every other step or every three steps if you feel the numbers get to high. I would include a generic rule about combining factors. When combining you take the highest severity and increase as follows; 1-3 factors increase by 1, 4-6 factors increase by 2, 7-9 factors increase by 3, etc.

Severity is rated as 1 = least severe or present to 10 being the most severe or present.

This way, instead of having to define individual factors under each skill, you have this spit-balling table that gives a good sense of the environment, representing factors from the environment, without ridiculous numbers adding up. Also, you don't have to come up with a bunch of variables in skill descriptions. You can offer suggestions and share examples of severity to help GMs adjudicate skills.

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[imported_Rasyr]

Good suggestions so far -- that universal modifiers table is, indeed, and interesting idea...

[Trentin Bergeron]

For the universal table I would include guidelines for the severity but not exact representations. It really should be "abstract" so you can say something like...

There is a storm blowing hard on the sea as your small ship tries to cross the fjord, the Wind is the worse with a severity of 6, while the choppy sea is severity 4. The rain is beating hard at severity 3, and the biting cold is just present enough to freeze your bones yet not freeze the biting rain, for a severity of 3. Since severity 6 is the highest we take that penalty at 18, and we have 3 additional factors for +1 so the final total penalty is -19.

(these are random numbers, obviously more thought needs to go into the actual numbers...).

Or maybe it should be +2 for every 3 additional factors?

I would have to run my stats to see how impactful penalties are. Do you have some guidance for penalty severity and the impact on probabilities?

[Fidoric]

I would not have gone that way. I think that the difficulty ratings in the core rules are enough. I would rather see explicit examples of some difficulty ratings for each skill lalong the line of the climb and balance examples in the common tasks table (p86).

The skill breakdown proposed by Trechriron is a very good base to start. It shows that each skill covers different actions (Athletics is used for climbing, swimming and running for example).
I think a universal modifiers table is a very good tool for a designer to generate some modifiers in advance for a campaign but it could be difficult to use during a gaming session on the fly. That's only a matter of taste though.

I will try to give some constructive examples of what I say next WE.

[imported_Rasyr]

There are good arguments for both the inclusion and exclusion of a universal table.

Hmm... since one of the features of the core rules was to have as few tables as possible, the universal table idea could be used as something of an option. Still need to take a closer look, as we don't want an option over-powering or over-shadowing the core rules in a bad way.... An option should present an alternative, without overly adjusting the power level of the game (without at least fairly warning that it can seriously affect it in that manner).

[Trentin Bergeron]

Yeah, I think paring it down to maybe 5 levels of severity would help.

I am suggesting that the universal table REPLACE most other tables, especially in skills. Instead of trying to come up with a bunch of real world metrics (like how far can a short person jump? how far can a tall person jump?), instead being more abstract to keep the game moving along.

There would be examples under skills how to use the universal table to determine an appropriate modifier for the roll. One. You would include all the factors in your description, but there would be only one modifier to encompass ALL the variables.

The idea is to inspire the GM to be descriptive. Including details is important for immersion. However, too many modifiers and numbers and things get cumbersome. I'm taking a page from Numenera or EABA here (or even Earthdawn to some effect). You determine what could effect the outcome, describe it, find the most significant modifier and then increase or decrease if more factors could influence the outcome.

I will flesh out my idea better this weekend and post so you can get a better idea of what I'm suggesting.

[Fidoric]

I think that something like LN1 could be close to what I envision.
For each skill you could find:
- a descriptive part including what actions are covered by the skill (using Trechriron proposed breakdown for example);
- a table including basic difficulty ratings and maybe some specific modifiers.

[imported_Rasyr]

Perhaps something along the lines of the following for the basic modifier classifications (and note that the modifiers affect the TNs of the given roll, not the roll itself) -- and yes, I know that my examples here suck.. it is off the cuff....

Base (+0) -- This is the base Target Number for a given task. Certain tasks are, by their very nature will be more difficult than others (i.e. scaling a wall with few handhold might be TN30 while climbing a ladder might be TN12)

Slight (+2) -- The modifier has a small impact upon the task at hand, increasing the TN a small amount. For example, if the ladder were wet and thus the wood were slippery, it may be considered a Slight Modifier.

Minor (+4) -- The modifier has more immediate impact upon the task at hand. For Example, a light rain would make our ladder not just slippery, but slick as well, making slips more likely.

Moderate (+6) -- This is essentially the half way point in the severity, and might include a moderate rain which would make climbing the ladder even more difficult

Major (+

[Trentin Bergeron]

Yes! Exactly. That is fantastic. I think by including things like this, you are giving solid examples of how to use the game. Not every GM is going to have a wide breadth of knowledge, so a "universal table" will offer ideas, examples, etc. I would not consider it "required" just along the lines of GM advice.

[imported_Rasyr]

Well, with what I put above, I could create a small, generic universal table (one column, 5 entries), and then give some sample "headers", and some solid examples of how they might apply...

For example, a Light Rain -- while being a Slight Modifier for climbing a ladder might be a Moderate or even Major modifier if trying to climb a wall that has very few handholds....

As with everything else, you have to account for the specifics of the situation. What I would likely most prefer, and also likely end up doing it giving some basic guidelines, and then use those guidelines in a number of varied situations showing how they can be applied in different situations and circumstances...

As with the Stealth/Perception example in another thread, I included a LOT of conditional statements in there because there was no way to make sure I covered every single thing

[Trentin Bergeron]

Makes sense. I stand waiting on baited breath... 

[imported_Rasyr]

Query!!

What do you think a good name for a product such as this might be? Obviously, I cannot do something along the lines of "School of Hard Knocks" since that is a title of another book about skills...

So, I am open to all sorts of suggestions!!!

And if I pick a name you suggest, I will definitely make sure to mention that in credits!

[Trentin Bergeron]

Depends. Is this going to be just skills? Or more?

Novus Players Companion 1: Skills

Novus Companion 1: Running Novus