NOVUS Old School Hack

[imported_Witchking20k]

Any comments on the way I re-did Talents Tim.  I think they are good enough as is right now as I want to work on the Spells stuff...

[imported_Rasyr]

Any comments on the way I re-did Talents Tim.  I think they are good enough as is right now as I want to work on the Spells stuff...

I liked how you did Talents, it fits within the framework of the design nicely, and works with the number of Talent Points you hand out and the number of levels you have going on. I didn't comment on them before for the simple reason that there was no need (i.e. I didn't feel the need to tinker with them....)

[imported_Witchking20k]

Excellent.  Now, what if I handled Spells in similar way...?

[imported_Rasyr]

Hmm... but how to do it...

I kinda like the idea of Spell Chains, but I also like, since you are going for an old school hack type of feel,  something more along the lines of the old D&D Rules Cyclopedia...

Perhaps get rid of Spell Points altogether (as that it something extra to track), perhaps add in a Fatigue score -- it starts off as 0, and then you can accumulate Fatigue in various ways (special strenuous actions, combat, spell casting, etc...

Each point of Fatigue gives a -1 to rolls -- perhaps even tie it into your damage rules as well somehow...

and for spellcasting you could do something like this:

Roll               Result
>TN+10        -2 Fatigue
>TN+5         -1 Fatigue
>TN              0 Fatigue
< TN            +1 Fatigue
<TN-5         +2 Fatigue
<TN-10       +3 Fatigue
etc...

Perhaps even use it for other physical actions as well...

This way it gives a single thing to track over multiple things

In fact, you could say that the "hit point damage" from weapons is actually Fatigue, and then this table from the other thread would work like so:
Total
Fatigue        Effect
26+              Critical Injury -5/disabled * Save vs. Con or Death
21-25           Severely Injured -3/-10 ** Must Make Save vs. Will or Flee Battle
16-20           Injured -2/-5 ** Must make Save vs. Will or Flee Battle
11-15           Hurt -1/-2
6-10             Dazed -1 until next action
1-5               No Effect

Just a suggestion.....

[Fidoric]

And would you put a maximum fatigue capacity (for example 5+Con bonus+Will bonus) or do you think the penalties tied to accrued fatigue are enough?

[imported_Rasyr]

If we tie Fatigue to the Damage table there, then  we are essentially donig away with hit points too.

I would make the Max Fatigue be equal to 25 + Con Bonus + Will + xx
where xx is a number gained each level. (i.e. Warriors might gain +2 per level, while Thieves get +1 per level, and Mages get +1 every 3 levels -- similar to the skill bonuses..

Or perhaps do something like

Con Stat + (2xCon Stat Bonus + Willpower Stat Bonus == Max Fatigue

Then have a Fatigue result table, where you divide this total by 6, and then put the multiples into boxes for each level

Threshold	Wound Level
____	Death
____	Critical
____	Severe
____	Injured
____	Hurt
____	Dazed
0	Healthy

So, if our intrepid Hero has a Con of 18 (2) and a Willpower Stat of 15(1), then Max Fatigue would stat off at 23 (18 + 2 + 2 + 1), and since he is a Warrior, he gets a +10 to this for a total of 33
We divide this by 6 for a result of 5.5 (rounded up to 6)

Threshold	Wound Level
33	Death
30	Critical
24	Severe
18	Injured
12	Hurt
6	Dazed
0	Healthy

So, if he has 7 Fatigue, he is Dazed... if he has 15 Fatigue, he is Hurt, etc....

Our Mage, on the other hand, with a Con of 13(1) and a Willpower of 19(3) would have a Max Fatigue of 18 Giving them a Fatigue table like so:

Threshold	Wound Level
18	Death
15	Critical
12	Severe
9	Injured
6	Hurt
3	Dazed
0	Healthy

Could easily do up a small table that gave total ranges that also gave the increment (so we do the math in advance) -- Could also make the formula a bit more convoluted if we are doing the math for them

Again, just tossing the idea out for perusal...

[imported_Witchking20k]

Like END in Hero System? All actions cost END be them physical , spells, attacks etc..

I like the tactical implications of a system like that...but, as with END in Hero, keeping track of it is a pain....plus, I wonder if its too far a departure from the original idea of the old school game....

Although, a pair of "Meters" that you could move a marker up and down on would be fun....

What I really need to figure out is how you start with and gain more spells. 

[imported_Witchking20k]

This is how I originally wrote spell acquisition:

Spells and Spell Acquisition

Characters who have access to spells get to either choose a total of ½ their Magecraft bonus in spells or make a number of spell gain rolls equal to their Magecraft bonus to try and learn spells at level 1. 

Example: A Mage with +6 in Magecraft at level 1 can either choose 3 spells, or make 6 rolls to learn spells.
To learn a spell the caster must roll Magecraft vs. the Spell Casting TN of a spell.  If the roll equal or exceeds the TN then the caster has learned the spell.

Example: Our Mage elects to roll to learn spells.  His first choice is Heal Bruise.  The Casting TN is 18 so he rolls 2d10 getting 13 adds +6 for a total of 19.  He learns Heal Bruise and has 5 more rolls to learn additional spells....

[imported_Witchking20k]

Learning New Spells

Upon advancing a level a character can make 1 + their Primary Stat Bonus in Spell Gain Rolls to learn new Spells.

Example: Our Mage advances from level 1 to 2.  He has a Stat Bonus of +2; he will be able to make 2+1=3 spell gain rolls to try and learn new spells. 

If this seems to random for your game you can allow a mage to spend their Talent Point to automatically learn 1 new spell every level.

Example: Our Mage advances from level 1 to 2.  Rather than risk not learning a new spell- the player elects to spend his Talent Point and automatically learn a new spell.

[Fidoric]

I think both ideas work. Let the choice to the player: either take a small but certain benefit or take a chance to earn more... Or less.

[imported_Witchking20k]

I agree- I think this is my favourite options for Spell Acquisition & Advancement.  As it seems I'll need to re-write a lot of spells the original Observation about the TNs being high may not matter....

[imported_Rasyr]

I would tack on that even for the random rolls, there should be at least minimum that is learned...

Perhaps something like

Each failed Spell Gain Roll results in a +1 to the next Spell Gain roll this level. If no spell gain rolls were successful, the character will still learn at least 1 spell (the attempted spell with the lowest TN)

Or also, perhaps allowing them to give up a Spell Gain Roll to get a +1 with a roll (i.e. Faryn has 6 Spell Gain Rolls, he decided to  use 1 to learn Firebolt, and to drop 2 other spell gain rolls to get a +2 to that roll.)

[imported_Witchking20k]

Ideally I want 1st level characters to have 3-4 spells and be able to add 1-2 at most per level....so, maybe you can have as many rolls as you have ranks in Magecraft skill, but learn a maximum of your Prime Stat bonus per level.

So, a character with 6 ranks in Magecraft and a +2 in their stat would get 6 rolls to learn a maximum of +2 spells per level.

[imported_Rasyr]

I like tying it to Stat Bonus for the max learned.. Also like tying the number of attempts to Magecraft skill bonus as well

Would still suggest allowing for  trading potential attempts for +1 to the Spell Gain Roll (as that simulates putting more effort into learning and also allows for players, since they know the max number that they are allowed to learn each level, to focus more on the spells that they want to learn.

As for First Level, just say you know 3 spells off the bat, and you may make a single Spell Gain Roll to learn a 4th...

[imported_Witchking20k]

Totally workable...if you get 6 rolls you can trade 5 rolls for a +5 to a single roll.  That seems fine.  I guess I'm going to have to start drafting this up....