NOVUS Old School Hack

[imported_Rasyr]

Sounds good...

after reading your OSH, and then looking at DNDNext, I have had some ideas swirling about the head......

Which in turn have been swirling back around something else I came up with at some point (I think I came up with it, but I could be mis-remembering) in regards to a Supers idea I had once....

You you basically get Pips in specific skills, but no stats are associated with those skills. In short, a +3 in Perception is simply a +3 in Perception.... Then the GM would pick a stat, and a skill, and you would roll, adding in the bonuses for those 2, and that would be your total -- the stat selected would be based on how the character was attempting to resolve the issue in question... Plus, you could combine multiple skills (and note: I am likely going to use something along these lines for Novus version 2 whenever I decide to do it).

For example, you have a skill -- Locks -- you want to pick a lock, the GM calls for Dex and Locks, you want to figure out a puzzle lock, the GM calls for either Int or Wis and Locks, finding locks? GM calls for Wis, Locks, & Perception

I would also like to perhaps suggest using, for OSH, the 4 Saves you came came up with instead of the one for each stat...

[imported_Witchking20k]

I use skills like that already- so a +3 in sword could be used with AG for Swashbuckling or INT for a weapon knowledge etc..or STR to attack with it.  "Independent Skills" it is called in MiniSix

[imported_Rasyr]

You you basically get Pips in specific skills, but no stats are associated with those skills. In short, a +3 in Perception is simply a +3 in Perception.... Then the GM would pick a stat, and a skill, and you would roll, adding in the bonuses for those 2, and that would be your total -- the stat selected would be based on how the character was attempting to resolve the issue in question... Plus, you could combine multiple skills (and note: I am likely going to use something along these lines for Novus version 2 whenever I decide to do it).

For example, you have a skill -- Locks -- you want to pick a lock, the GM calls for Dex and Locks, you want to figure out a puzzle lock, the GM calls for either Int or Wis and Locks, finding locks? GM calls for Wis, Locks, & Perception

Just wanted to expand on this a moment -- in regards to Combat Skills....

Basically, I was thinking just a few Combat Skills (Melee, Missile, Thrown, Unarmed), and then you would have specialties (kinda like what I suggested back on the first page of this thread), except that the skill bonus only applied to the specialties. OR, the specialties could be treated just like skills, but which work in Combo with the base Combat Skills (i.e. Two Weapon Combat would use Stat Bonus + Melee + Weapon Skill + TWC skill) The tradeoff being that each "specialty" costs more -- i.e. Melee costs current bonus to incrase, Weapon Skill, since it is under Melee costs current bonus + 1, and TWC would cost current bonus + 2 - and obviously, TWC could not be higher than WS, and WS could not be higher than Melee)

Then a race might get +1 to  Hearing, which gives a bonus to rolls involving Hearing.... such as Perception, when trying to listen to hear what is on the other side of a door.....

[imported_Rasyr]

I use skills like that already- so a +3 in sword could be used with AG for Swashbuckling or INT for a weapon knowledge etc..or STR to attack with it.  "Independent Skills" it is called in MiniSix

Cool!! The more I fiddle with that sort of idea, the more I am liking it... as it makes things MORE flexible overall, and allows for "smaller" skill list, while allowing for almost ANY skill that might be wanted...

[Fidoric]

That system is frequently used with dice pools. Legend of the 5 rings works like that (or at least it worked like that last time I have played it more than 10 years ago).

That is a very good and flexible system. One side effect is that you must reconsider what are stats and hat are skills. For example, you could consider that perception is now a stat that you can combine with a thievery skill or a magery skill to notice a would-be pickpocket or a spell caster.

Novus 2? Really? I am with you!

[imported_Witchking20k]

IMO it promotes creative use of skills.  From my example above you can use the a +3 in Missile Weapons as an incentive for an archery contest- or make an encounter revolving around accuracy etc.  I think the key is including this in the skill descriptor.

[imported_Rasyr]

That is a very good and flexible system. One side effect is that you must reconsider what are stats and hat are skills. For example, you could consider that perception is now a stat that you can combine with a thievery skill or a magery skill to notice a would-be pickpocket or a spell caster.

I wouldn't make Perception a stat, since it is something that can be learned... However, Wisdom, would be the stat that goes with it, since that is the stat for comprehension

Novus 2? Really? I am with you!

Not for at least a year or two, I don't want to do a revision with less than 5 years under release (i.e. not more often than D&D). 

[imported_Rasyr]

IMO it promotes creative use of skills.  From my example above you can use the a +3 in Missile Weapons as an incentive for an archery contest- or make an encounter revolving around accuracy etc.  I think the key is including this in the skill descriptor.

Not only in skill descriptions, but also in a very good understanding of the purpose of each stat as well...

For example....

Int == for accessing memory, and for recall
Wis == for comprehension, understanding how bits and pieces fit together
Will == determination, grit, pushing oneself beyond normal boundries
Con == toughness, stamina, abiltiy to absorb physical punishment
Dex ==  fine motor control, the use of tools
Spd == reaction speed, reflexes

Going back to our Archery skill...

A GM could use Archery+Perception+Wis to find a weak spot in a a dragon's armor (think of Smaug's missing scale), and the best way to hit it.
Archery+Dex for actually attempting to hit that spot...

For a contest, the GM might use Archery+Dex for a general accuracy contest; or perhaps Archery+Speed for a contest that involves pop-up targets of some sort (i.e. first to react and shoot - the right targets - wins..

It is how the situation is described that I think will be important...

[imported_Witchking20k]

One of the conversations that I had with the players over the weekend was that they really wanted to keep the "skill bloat" in check.  And, having been playing a dice pool game as of late, they liked the idea of an independent skills system.  I think I can manage to shrink the skills list a little too by taking this approach....some Lore skills will be rolled right into other skills for example.

[imported_Rasyr]

Right, any craft or profession type skills should not only include the skills required to do the job, but the lore behind it as well....

Also, the way you are handling spells, you will only need 1 magic skill, (recommend Magecraft -- because I think it sounds cooler...)

And on further reflection, up above I mentioned the idea of including something along the lines of skill trees.....


Here would be my first suggestion for a skill list....

[li]Acrobatics - jumps and rolls and swinging and climbing[/li]
[li]Athletics - swimming, running, lifting, perhaps climbing can be included here as well, to show off different type (str vs agility)[/li]
[li]Bluff - this is the con man skill, used for duping folks or even giving a performance as an actor, essentially, this is the verbal portion of the Trickery skill from Novus, since that seemed to cause confusion sometimes[/li]
[li]Combat Skills - For types of combat skills -- each has its own list of specialties, see below (this skill needs some more refinement, that is for sure -- Melee could be broken down into further groups, for similar skill purposes - for example, skill with Light Blades would be helpful in heavy blades, but not Great blades or Staves.

• Melee
• Missile
• Thrown
• Unarmed
Might just be an idea to remove them completely from the general skill list and keep them separate....
[/list][/li]
[li]Crafts - each craft includes all all skills to do the job and the lore behind it -- this also covers specific Professions such as Herbalist or cartographer, etc.. -- Note that this now encompasses the Navigation Skill within one of several different possible Crafts (i.e. Catographer.Map-maker, Ship's Pilot, etc...). This also includes artistic endeavors such as Painting, [/li]
[li]Healing - encompasses First Aid and more involved types of things such as surgery at higher levels of ability[/li]
[li]Influence - This is the skill of negotiation and trade, of knowing how to use bribery and of making treaties and  so forth[/li]
[li]Locks - This is the art of picking locks -- might be combined into Crafts as a specialization[/li]
[li]Lore - Must be specialized into at least a broad category (i.e. Dragon Lore, Demon/Devil Lore, etc..., can be used to cover all sorts of skill gaps[/li]
[li]Magecraft - for all things magical, including casting of spells[/li]
[li]Perception - skill in noticing what is around you...[/li]
[li]Performing Arts - maybe rename to Play Instruments since Bluff now covers Acting...  would perhaps specialize by type of instrument (i.e. horns, drums, stringed, woodwinds)[/li]
[li]Riding - as before[/li]
[li]Stealth - As before[/li]
[li]Streetwise - like influence, but for the seemier side of like -- how to find a fence for stolen goods, how to bribe a guard, etc..[/li]
[li]Survival - as before[/li]
[li]Tracking - as before[/li]
[li]Traps - the creation and setting of traps, as well as traps lore -- this skill is a good one for Trappers -- NOTE: might be combined into Crafts, as a specialization[/li]
[li]Trickery - This is sleight of hand type trickery only....[/li]
[/list]


Here again is the break down of combat skills....





























[b]Melee[/b]	[b]Missile[/b]	[b]Thrown[/b]	[b]Unarmed[/b]
Axes & Hammers Chains Plus Clubs Great Blades Heavy Blades Light Blades Pole Arms** Short Blades Spears** Staves** Sword & Board (requires Heavy Blades) Two Weapon Combo (requires Light/heavy Blades)	Archery (requires Bows) Bows Crossbows Slings	Thrown Axes & Hammers Thrown Blades Thrown Spears	Brawling Boxing Martial Arts Sanju (requires Martial Arts) Wrestling



** == maybe combine Pole Arms, Spears and Staves into a single group


I see 2 main ways of handling them...

1) Use the 4 skills, but have Specialties under that. Basically when you get the Melee Skill, you automatically choose 1 Specialty. Certain classes or other options can give more specialties. If you have a group as a Specialty, then you get to use full skill bonus for that Specialty (each specialty lists a stat bonus that is part of the Base Damage). This would require a method of gaining specialties...

2) each weapon group is a separate skill -- I am more inclined to this one myself, since that was part of the original setup and all weapons in a given group use that same bonus (perhaps add in more weapons that appear on multiple groups, like the Bastard Sword does?). I also think that this would work better with the Class Builds idea....

For example, you can have a general Fighter who perhaps gets 3 weapon skills, or choose a duelist, who goes for Light Blades (and gets 2 points in this, rather than just 1, but gets less weapon skills overall, because of his focus. We could even, perhaps restrict the combat Styles to specialist Class Builds

Just a few thoughts...[/list]

[imported_Rasyr]

also had a thought  --

with an independent skill system like this, it would be easy to set things up for handling cross-genre relatively easily...

[imported_Witchking20k]

Yes it would- have you ever read the MiniSix Rules?  http://www.antipaladingames.com/

[imported_Witchking20k]

I have combined tracking & survival into Outdoorsman & Traps & Locks into Thievery?

[imported_Rasyr]

Yes it would- have you ever read the MiniSix Rules?  http://www.antipaladingames.com/

No, I haven't, but I can see that I may need to...

I have combined tracking & survival into Outdoorsman & Traps & Locks into Thievery?

Not too sure about Outdoorsman, but I like that Thievery one, and I also like the fact that you can actually have skills that overlap in some manner in some cases (ie such as Craft:Locksmith could be used to pick locks just as Thievery could)....

[Zut]

LOL- well its a good thing you're an experienced editor too then



That's not much, I mean I had to actually look for the typos, it's not as if they "jumped" to my eyes. Anyway, about the ideas presented in this thread, I find them very interesting. Maybe they could be a part of a future Libram Novus? This way they could get some more general playtesting. I like the idea of "independant skills" and merging the Lore subskills with their appropriate skill(s).  I think that Lore would still be needed, like for obscure or History knowledge.