Re: Re: Novus 2.0 tidbits -- Hits & Wounds

[AresLunthar]

I like it too.  I pretty much like all of the options; I just don't want the game overwhelmed with them.  So, I think we should take a close look now before it gets to open beta.  I'm planning on GMing the beta within the next month or two for two different groups (hopefully).

[imported_Rasyr]

The extra damage above, would be part of the Core and would go a long ways to making the weapons more distinct. For those that can use Slash or Pierce, the player would have to choose which he is doing BEFORE his attack, so the GM knows what type of extra damage is being applied.

these would NOT be swapping hits for stuff.

[AresLunthar]

On a similar yet unrelated note.....can we do away with adding stats to base damage?  Your skill roll is already modified by your stat, so, in theory it already adds hit points via scaled damage.  It's always bothered me for some reason......... 

[imported_Rasyr]

On a similar yet unrelated note.....can we do away with adding stats to base damage?  Your skill roll is already modified by your stat, so, in theory it already adds hit points via scaled damage.  It's always bothered me for some reason......... 

Remember, in the current rules, a different stat is added to the damage, but I will take a closer look (as that would mean another reworking of monsters heheh). But yeah, that would make things easier and less complicated in the long run.

And the more I think about it, the more I do like that idea, since it does simplify things.

[kenbert]

On a similar yet unrelated note.....can we do away with adding stats to base damage?  Your skill roll is already modified by your stat, so, in theory it already adds hit points via scaled damage.  It's always bothered me for some reason......... 

Remember, in the current rules, a different stat is added to the damage, but I will take a closer look (as that would mean another reworking of monsters heheh). But yeah, that would make things easier and less complicated in the long run.

And the more I think about it, the more I do like that idea, since it does simplify things.

The only thing is it would be strange to me to not add your strength stat to the damage that you inflict for muscle powered weapons.  By removing the damage stat to the damage this would effectively remove strength from the damage inflicted for a majority of weapons. 

[imported_Rasyr]

The only thing is it would be strange to me to not add your strength stat to the damage that you inflict for muscle powered weapons.  By removing the damage stat to the damage this would effectively remove strength from the damage inflicted for a majority of weapons. 

Yeah, that is part of the issue (as to why they have not been removed yet).

I could do Averaged Stats for weapons (i.e. add 2 Stats, divided by 2, round down), and put this on the Weapon Table.. Afterall, the use of many weapons is often a combination of stats Strength and Dex in most cases

[kenbert]

The only thing is it would be strange to me to not add your strength stat to the damage that you inflict for muscle powered weapons.  By removing the damage stat to the damage this would effectively remove strength from the damage inflicted for a majority of weapons. 

Yeah, that is part of the issue (as to why they have not been removed yet).

I could do Averaged Stats for weapons (i.e. add 2 Stats, divided by 2, round down), and put this on the Weapon Table.. Afterall, the use of many weapons is often a combination of stats Strength and Dex in most cases

I think that averaging two stats would work since the resolution for hitting and damaging your opponent is combined into one roll.  It is a bit of a paradime shift in that the damage stat will now be used in the generation of boon points.  This is not a bad thing.

[AresLunthar]

Personally, I'd rather avoid stat averaging.  My opinion on STR in melee is that it is part of the Base Damage because you use it to reach the STR minimum required to wield a weapon.  Realistically, your STR in melee is actually the difference between your STR and the STR minimum associated with the weapon.

IMO we should mimic what Hero System (and GURPS I think) does and only allow you to "push" the Base Damage of a Weapon if your exceeds the STR minimum by X points.  There are no STR Minimums in Novus- but you could do this by weapon size Small (STR 7-9), Medium (STR 10-12), Large (STR 13-15) for example.  The Caveat for Large Weapons is that they are two handed.  Maybe you can add your STR to weapon damage if your value (using a Novus 1 reference) exceeds the STR Minimum by 5 points or something?

Just a thought.

[imported_Rasyr]

Personally, I'd rather avoid stat averaging.  My opinion on STR in melee is that it is part of the Base Damage because you use it to reach the STR minimum required to wield a weapon.  Realistically, your STR in melee is actually the difference between your STR and the STR minimum associated with the weapon.

Yeah, I am not a fan of averaging stats either.  If I can avoid it, I will.

IMO we should mimic what Hero System (and GURPS I think) does and only allow you to "push" the Base Damage of a Weapon if your exceeds the STR minimum by X points.  There are no STR Minimums in Novus- but you could do this by weapon size Small (STR 7-9), Medium (STR 10-12), Large (STR 13-15) for example.  The Caveat for Large Weapons is that they are two handed.  Maybe you can add your STR to weapon damage if your value (using a Novus 1 reference) exceeds the STR Minimum by 5 points or something?

How about something like:

Melee Push -- Take a -5 modifier to your Initiative Point (IP) and if your attack is successful, you can add your Str to the amount of damage dealt. Two handed weapons only get a -2 modifier to IP. This does not effect either Base Damage or the Scaled Damage limits.

[AresLunthar]

Seems good to me.  Maybe add a cap of +1, +2, +3 DMG based on weapon size?

[kenbert]

Personally, I'd rather avoid stat averaging.  My opinion on STR in melee is that it is part of the Base Damage because you use it to reach the STR minimum required to wield a weapon.  Realistically, your STR in melee is actually the difference between your STR and the STR minimum associated with the weapon.

IMO we should mimic what Hero System (and GURPS I think) does and only allow you to "push" the Base Damage of a Weapon if your exceeds the STR minimum by X points.  There are no STR Minimums in Novus- but you could do this by weapon size Small (STR 7-9), Medium (STR 10-12), Large (STR 13-15) for example.  The Caveat for Large Weapons is that they are two handed.  Maybe you can add your STR to weapon damage if your value (using a Novus 1 reference) exceeds the STR Minimum by 5 points or something?

In GURPS melee weapon damage is an adder to your base thrusting or swinging damage from your strength e.g. ig your base swing damage is 2d from your strength and the weapon does sw+2 then you would deal 2d+2 damage.  You take penalties to your attack if you do not meet the minimum strength. 

Yeah, I am not a fan of averaging stats either.  If I can avoid it, I will.

Yeah, I would set up the math to avoid averaging.

How about something like:

Melee Push -- Take a -5 modifier to your Initiative Point (IP) and if your attack is successful, you can add your Str to the amount of damage dealt. Two handed weapons only get a -2 modifier to IP. This does not effect either Base Damage or the Scaled Damage limits.

I am sorry but I am not a fan of this.  I really think that STR should always add to damage for the majority of weapons.

[AresLunthar]

I just think the stat adding into damage twice doesn't make sense.  I have no problem with it adding to Damage once.  The way Novus 1 works is if you have a DEX based weapon DEX adds to the AB and the DMG.  If, say DEX was added to the AB but STR to the DMG this would somehow make more sense to me.  Does that make sense to someone else?

[kenbert]

I just think the stat adding into damage twice doesn't make sense.  I have no problem with it adding to Damage once.  The way Novus 1 works is if you have a DEX based weapon DEX adds to the AB and the DMG.  If, say DEX was added to the AB but STR to the DMG this would somehow make more sense to me.  Does that make sense to someone else?

Yep, this is how most games handle it.  However, in Novus like Rolemaster there is a one role resolution for hitting and determining the amount of damage unlike many other games which have separate rolls. This makes it harder to split "to-hit"  stat mods and "damage" stat mods. I like the rules in LN #11.  Splitting the stats and enforcing damage caps for scaled damage work well.  In essence the "to-hit" stat does not necessarily add to damage due to the scaling damage cap.  It does still affect the generation of boons.  The damage stat always adds to damage.   I think that this works well. 

[imported_Rasyr]

Ok, here is an idea......

Right now a weapon has a damage range equal to "from x to 3x" where x is the Damage Rating of the weapon.

What if we changed it to (for Melee Weapons only), "from x to 3x+Str"?

Thus if your character has a Str of 3, a Dagger (DR4) would have a damage range of 4 to 15 if wielded in melee, but on 4 to 12 if thrown.

This way Strength is part of the Damage calculations, but we are not technically adding stats twice or adding multiple stats


Oh, side note -- LN11 is actually Novus 2.0 rules adapted to Novus. 

[kenbert]

Ok, here is an idea......

Right now a weapon has a damage range equal to "from x to 3x" where x is the Damage Rating of the weapon.

What if we changed it to (for Melee Weapons only), "from x to 3x+Str"?

Thus if your character has a Str of 3, a Dagger (DR4) would have a damage range of 4 to 15 if wielded in melee, but on 4 to 12 if thrown.

This way Strength is part of the Damage calculations, but we are not technically adding stats twice or adding multiple stats

Sorry Tim but your proposal still doesn't sit right to me.  If I may, I have a proposed change:

What if the "to hit" stat bonus is only used in the determination of whether you hit or not and for the generation of boons/ avoiding snags.  It would not be added to the scaled damage- only your skill rank bonus and die roll is used to determine whether you deal scaled damage.  Your "damage" stat is then added to the weapons base damage.  In this case, only one stat is ever added to damage.

Oh, side note -- LN11 is actually Novus 2.0 rules adapted to Novus. 



I think the rules in LN11 really improve Novus.