Should Balls, Bolts, and Cones be separate spells?

[imported_Rasyr]

The question says it all....Opinions?

[imported_Rasyr]

Side note -- separating them out would expand the number of spells for each school to 20 from the 18 that I am already expanding them to. 

[AresLunthar]

No- however, as a player/GM I wouldn't mind seeing them as a separate skill because A) a weak ball would be attainable sooner you can avoid a PC that gains multiple "powers" through the use of one skill (spell)

[Heimdallsgothi]

Here is how I view this issue
Bolt - single target, generally close range (Under 50')
Cone- Multi Target, Close -Mid Range
Ball - Multi Target, Mid-Long Range

Is spell shaping an option?
The mythras spell shaping rules are amazing and suggest a look over

[imported_Rasyr]

Is spell shaping an option?
The mythras spell shaping rules are amazing and suggest a look over

Novus spells are scalable. This has some similarities to Spell Shaping (if I looked up the right thing).

Each spell comes with a number of options that may be chosen at the time of casting (learning the spell is a one time CP cost, casting it uses the Casting skill (one skill for all the spells in your school & universal spells).

What is does not allow for is things like combining multiple spells.

[AresLunthar]

I guess to me a cone and a bolt are very similar effects, but, a ball is a separate effect.  From a game balance perspective I would rather see a dart, that becomes a bolt, that becomes a cone.  The scaling options can affect DMG & range rather than AoE.  The idea of a cone or wave for a low-powered adventurer is interesting to me because it could give a mage a "melee/missile" attack.  maybe making the cone/wave to an arc of DMG but attack as a melee attack?  I'm envisioning a caster waving her hand in a 180 degree arc in front of them and the 3 Hexes each taking X damage sort of thing. 

[imported_Rasyr]

Oh, now that IS an interesting idea.....

bolt == tiny ball/shard being fired
ball == area attack
cone == area attack

but that suggestion
Slash == no range area attack (ie. a 90 degree arc in front of caster) is a very interesting idea. -- could even had it be against 1 target in melee range, and then scale it up to multiple targets in melee range.... (your arc)

then seperate ball/cone into seperate spell

must think more...

[AresLunthar]

That is what I was thinking too.  The caveat being it would be a lower amount of DMG vs. an AoE like a ball.  To me a Flame Arc as an entry level character would be really appealing. 

[imported_Rasyr]

Hmm........

Ok, how about something like this as an example....


Force Bolt

CTN: 16	Fatigue: 1
Vs: DT	Range: 5'
Duration:	----

Description: Caster is able to focus magical energy to create a bolt of force that strikes out at a target within range. This is considered a melee attack, and it will use the caster's Targeting skill (casting and attacking are 2 separate rolls, but they are considered to be a single Full Action for the caster. This attack does 4+ magic Stat in damage, plus any scalable damage from the attack roll.
        The caster may scale the spell up in one of two ways. He can use the  Arc Attack option to attack more than one target with the attack, but all such targets must be within range, and within a 90 degree arc in front of the caster. Only one attack (Targeting) roll is made, and the result is applied against all targets within Range.
        The second scaling option allows the caster to shoot the bolt out to attack a more distant target, increasing the attack range to 50' or further, depending upon how many times the Scaling Option is used. This Ranged attack cannot attack multiple targets.

Scaling Option	CTN	Ftg
Arc Attack (per additional target)	+2	+1
Increase Range (to/per 50')	+4	+2

And then a separate spell for the Ball/Cone attack

[AresLunthar]

I'd do

X Arc

CTN: 16  Fatigue: 1
vs. DT  Range: 5' Arc (90 Degrees)

Caster is able to focus magical energy to create an Arc Attack within a 90 degree arc in front of the caster. Only one attack (Targeting) roll is made, and the result is applied against all targets within Range.

Scaling Options
Per additional 45 degrees +2 CTN +1 Fatigue

[imported_Rasyr]

ASTRAL BOLT (MJ 2/MN 3/N 4)
CTN:   16      Fatigue:    1
Vs:  DT      Range:  5'
Duration:   --
Description: Caster focuses raw Astral energy that does an amount of Base Damage equal to 4 + the caster's Wisdom. This attack will do double (total) damage to any creature or being that is not from the Mortal Planes; including Celestial, Infernal, and Spirit entities. It does no damage to constructs, undead, or other non-living objects or things. This is considered a melee attack, and it will use the caster's Targeting skill (casting and attacking are 2 separate rolls, but they are considered to be a single Full Action for the caster). The caster has 2 main options when casting this spell.

The first Casting Option, Arc Attack, allows the caster's attack to be used against multiple targets within the same attack action. All such targets much be within a 90° of one another, in front of the caster, and within range of the spell. The Casting Option, Ranged Arc, allows the Arc attack to be used at a distance, but all targets for the Arc Attack must be within that same 90° arc, and adjacent to one another.

The second Casting Option, Ranged Attack, allows the caster to shoot a 1" ball of Astral energy out to a range of 50' to strike at a single target. The caster can also increase the range of this attack more easily than he can the Arc Attack. (Base: Attack)

Casting Options  CTN Ftg
Increase Base Damage (per +1 hit)  +3  +1
Arc Attack (per +1 target)  +2  +1
Ranged Arc (per +10')   +2  +1
Ranged Attack (to +50') +2  +1
Increase Ranged Attack (per +50')   +2  +1


This is what I came up with.... (I may steal some of your phrasing though hehehe)

[imported_Rasyr]

I'd do

X Arc

CTN: 16  Fatigue: 1
vs. DT  Range: 5' Arc (90 Degrees)

Caster is able to focus magical energy to create an Arc Attack within a 90 degree arc in front of the caster. Only one attack (Targeting) roll is made, and the result is applied against all targets within Range.

Scaling Options
Per additional 45 degrees +2 CTN +1 Fatigue

I do like this, and may have to add a new entry to the Attack table for spell creation, to allow for something like this without having to scale it up to make it untenable

[AresLunthar]

One of the things I've learned from watching D&D evolve and Rolemaster not is how important it is to make magic available.

[imported_Rasyr]

ASTRAL ARC (MJ 2/MN 3/N 4)
CTN:    16      Fatigue:    1
Vs:  DT      Range:  5'
Duration:   --
Description: Caster focuses raw Astral energy into a slashing attack that does an amount of Base Damage equal to 4 + the caster's Wisdom. This attack will do double (total) damage to any creature or being that is not from the Mortal Planes; including Celestial, Infernal, and Spirit entities. It does no damage to constructs, undead, or other non-living objects or things. This is considered a melee attack, and it will use the caster's Targeting skill (casting and attacking are 2 separate rolls, but they are considered to be a single Full Action for the caster).

This attack will hit any foes within a 45° arc of one another, either in front of or beside the caster, as long as they are within 5' of the caster. Only one attack roll is made and its results are used against any foes in range. The Casting Option, Increase Arc, allows the caster to create a bigger arc, allowing the attack to him more foes. The Casting Option, Ranged Arc, allows the attack to strike foes further from the caster, so long as those foes are within 5' of each other, and nobody between the caster and the first target. Each additional 45° of arc, allows it to strike up to 2 more adjacent foes. The arc attack does become weaker, the further the caster sends it.

The second Casting Option, Ranged Attack, allows the caster to shoot a 1" ball of Astral energy out to a range of 50' to strike at a single target. The caster can also increase the range of this attack more easily than he can the Arc Attack. (Base: Attack)
Casting Options CTN Ftg
Increase Base Damage (per +1 hit)  +3  +1
Increase Arc (per +45°) +2  +1
Ranged Arc (per +10' & -2 Hits) +2  +1
Ranged Attack (to +50') +2  +1
Increase Ranged Attack (per +50')   +2  +1


How is this?

[AresLunthar]

Seems good.  I suspect you'll have to keep your eye on it through playtest.  I like how it's kind of an investment; not great out of the gate, but something that is worth developing over time.